powerboat

[smidnite]

Question, if I'm going to go on a trip with a power cruiser would it be beneficial for me to remove my mast and jib? By doing so would I get improved mpg, or knots? I have an 02 X with the Nissan TLDI 50hp.



Thanks in advance,
Phil

[Sloop John B]

Yeah, hey, up there in Paulsbro.

Rake the thing. Mast, boom, all the rigging. Cast off the sails and their little bags. Flip the raising gear and unnecessary gear into a bundle in the garage. You're all set.

As to improved mileage and speed, you'll have to take a pencil along and record how it's going.

Later, take all this crap back aboard and write down how it's going and you will be able to see what a difference it made.

You want to know ahead of time, however.

Yes, you will get better mileage and you will be able to go faster.

This was proven by little Jesus Martinez with a 10 ounce bottle of San Miguel in a MacGregor video doing 24 miles an hour, but the miles per gallon has not yet been disclosed.

[ALX357]

no mast on boat means lighter means faster, of course, but be aware that on an earlier thread of this site, it was suggested that the boat will rock back and forth MORE than if the mast was up, and maybe not less than if it was on the boat in trailering position. The reason was that the long spar when up provides a pendulum moment that slows the rocking of the boat from side waves or wakes. The lack of the weight and height giving extra speed and maybe better mileage might not be worth that trade off of rolling stability.

[ALX357]

it is also suggested that Roger filmed a stripped out empty Mac, nothing inside, with a lightweight solo driver, and a minimal amount of gas, to attain that speed of 24 mph.

[Sloop John B]

Gees, AlX,

You want to put a telephone pole upright on your Mac and roar about thinking you're more stable?

Or a little dinky pole, and think you're more stable?

Naa, as long as your weight is low, you're better off for roaring about.

[Sloop John B]

Suggested? Haven't you met the barefoot 110 lb. Martinez kid yet?

[ALX357]

Hey Sloop....
i haven't any first hand experience with mastless motoring, but i have noticed a difference with the mast down, and the rocking frequency. Stability might be not the right term, since it makes sense that the balance would be better without weight up high, but until you experience the rocking change, hold the conclusion. The boat can't wag that long mast back and forth as fast as it can rock without it.

[Sloop John B]

Okay, I'll try it out.

I think I will rock slower with the mast up and that I will rock a bit more.

I think I will rock faster with the mast gone but I will rock a little less.

So, that's what I think. I'll have to check it out before I tell you what I know.

[ALX357]

Sloop, i bet you're right about the slower and more, faster and less.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

We have made a number of trips with our X mastless. The most recent one was 4 days out Memorial Day weekend to Blake Island and Poulsbo.
Here's our log book entries. There are quite a few pictures of the boat without the mast.

http://www.ddunn.org/logBook68.htm Blake Island/Poulsbo 2005
http://www.ddunn.org/LogBook%2067.htm NewYears 2005
http://www.ddunn.org/LogBook65.htm Water Toys 2004
http://www.ddunn.org/LogBook39.htm Illahee/Poulsbo 2004
http://www.ddunn.org/LogBook35.htm Fishing 2003
http://www.ddunn.org/LogBook26.htm Seafair 2003

I'd like to tell you that you will see some dramatic increase in the performance of the boat, but it's just not so. Our's has a Tohatsu 50, the forerunner to your Nissan TLDI (Tohatsu makes the Nissan motors) so I think it is very similar in performance. The mast, boom, and assorted sailing stuff that you can leave at home weighs a total of around 130lbs. In theory this should amount to about 1 knot in additional speed, but you will have a hard time noticing the difference. Now that we have made 6 trips, 232+ Nmiles, 13 days without the mast, I would say that you really won't notice any great performance improvement, nor will you notice any bad behavior on the boats part as well. We do not experience any additional roll, or faster roll, without the mast than with the mast. It's just the same boat without the mast. We operate almost exclusively with the ballast tank empty when mast less. Occasionally I may fill, usually at night if I want more stability at anchor, but as soon as we get under way we drain the tank. Under 7 knots I'll have some centerboard and rudders down for better tracking. In any tight handling situation, docks, locks, etc I will have all fins down.

It's really just a choice in where you want to spend your time. It takes about the exact same amount of time to raise the mast as it does to take it off. Ditto for taking it down vs. putting it back on. The advantage is you spend the 30-40 minutes doing this at your leisure at home rather than at the launch in a hurry.

It is very nice to just pull up to the launch line, un-do the strap, pull out the fenders and lines, and back the boat in. Both launching and loading are very quick and easy when you leave the mast behind. For us this is the one BIG reason to leave the mast at home. Because we use our nearby local ramp only 10 minutes away on surface streets we are able to have the boat fully set up before we leave the driveway. Our canvas is up, life sling/ life ring in place, cushions, instruments, you name it, we are fully rigged before we go.

Of course you give up sailing, but we have found over the last 5 years that even when the mast is on we motor around 80-90% of the time anyway. I probably shouldn't admit it, but we have decided to store the mast for the summer. It's off the boat, spreaders removed, all bundled up and stored in our kayak shed. The boom and main are in the attic of the tool shed. We're going to go all summer mastless. The theory is that having the boat ready for an easy launch will lend itself to our using it more for short, spur of the moment trips. I'll let you know how it has worked out at the end of the summer. Who knows, if it's a big hit we may make a full powerboat conversion.

I'm designing a small (5'), raked, stub mast to attach to the step. It will have the forward facing light for motoring, plus an anchor light, as well a some places for flags, etc. The boat seems rather empty with nothing at the step, and I'm sure if the coast guard were to inspect they would complain about the missing white forward facing light.

All in all, I'd say give mastless a try. If you don't like it you can easily go back to being a sailboat. Who knows, maybe you'll be hooked like we are.

[ALX357]

Very valid motorboat points. Are there true motorboats that would do the job better, more comfort, speed, gas efficiency, ? interesting discussion, however it goes....

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

duane...you've given up sailing this summer?
sounds like you (or maybe your kids) are ready for a 30' houseboat and a couple of jet ski's.

[Divecoz]

Did that power boat mean to beach it like that ? Or was he left high and dry by the tide? I would think that would be hard on the hull sitting in that position

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Even as a powerboat I've found nothing that can match the mac in terms of cruising space vs cost.

We've found one other small powerboat with enough space for our family of 5 to make extended cruises. It's the Bayliner 289 Classic. It sleeps 6, has a comperable galley, a better head and a nice enclosed cockpit.

http://www.bayliner.com/cruisers.asp?mo ... &year=2005

It's layout is very similar to the macs, it's semi trailerable on a triple axel trailer at over 8,000#'s and a 9'9" beam. Certainly faster with a 25 knot cruise.

Still, new at the boat show it's $75k to start. We saw a nicely equiped used one in Poulsbo on our last trip for sale at $60k. I've seen some in the boat rags for as low as $45k. That's a far cry from the $20k the mac was (not to mention that we paid cash 5 years ago and have no monthly payment). Plus we'd double the fuel costs with the boats V8 verses even our fuel hungry two stroke Tohatsu.

I also doubt given the usual seas we encounter that we could blast around at 25 knots in the Bayliner. I don't think the useable speed difference would be that much.

All the other possible boats for our family are bigger (can you say slip fees and bottom paint), always $100k and higher in price, and basicaly not viable alternatives to the mac which only costs us $100 a year for license tabs and what ever fuel we use.

Yes, I've given up sailing for the summer, but not boating. And the boat is only an hours work in the backyard from being back to a sailboat at any time. The Mac's versitility is unmatched.

No house boats for us, they're just plain ugly dogs. Right now the kids are happy with the dingy with it's 6hp motor as a toy. Jet skis are not in their sights.

Yes, the boat pulled in and beached on purpose. They spent the afternoon enjoying the beach, and left when the tide came back in and re-floated them. By how they handled it you could tell they had done it before.

[tcoltrane]

Duane
I plan on doing the same thing
you are doing. I keep my boat
in a Morton Bdg that has a 14 foot eve height so I am going to just suspend the mast and rigging from the rafters. If I want to sail I can just lower it back on the boat in a few minutes.

My wife and I are avid fisherman and fish in some great spots that one must pass under some low bridges. Most of these places are a good two hour run
by engine from Oriental, NC so
sailing would take too much time
if fishing is on the weekend agenda.

I would be interested in your stub mast design for running lights and anchoring. When you
figure it out I hope you will
share it with the rest of us.

Thanks

TColtrane