26M Alcohol Stove Top

[Tomfoolery]

Contemplating rebuilding my sliding galley and table to incorporate more usable storage, so gimballing could be incorporated during design. You and Highlander bring up an interesting point regarding having the stove remain portable. Maybe a gimballed mount that the stove just sits (securely) in.

Just make sure the gimbal locks, like a regular marine range, so it’s not swinging around on the road or when not in use.

Consider propane, but with a short hose to a 1 lb cylinder. Remove the cylinder and store outside when not in use. Don’t need a solenoid valve if the cylinder is right there with you, with a shut off valve. Or if you’re really creative, direct-coupled, with no hose. If possible.

[Jimmyt]

Just make sure the gimbal locks, like a regular marine range, so it’s not swinging around on the road or when not in use.

Consider propane, but with a short hose to a 1 lb cylinder. Remove the cylinder and store outside when not in use. Don’t need a solenoid valve if the cylinder is right there with you, with a shut off valve. Or if you’re really creative, direct-coupled, with no hose. If possible.

Excellent point! I wasn't considering making it lockable in spite of seeing it on the bigger oven units. Glad you said that now instead of when you saw pics of it finished.

Agree. Small cylinders, no hoses at all. I'm not afraid of gas piping. I have a house full of it. Just don't typically run my house through a chop at 17 kts... I believe you can do it safely on a boat through proper installation, maintenance, and inspection. I just don't want anything else to inspect or maintain.

Turning into a grumpy old guy I guess.

[Russ]

This was a VERY interesting test.

It was interesting that they had trouble getting the gas to concentrate high enough to sound the alarm.
It is my totally unprofessional opinion that a well ventilated open boat with hatches open would have trouble building up gas fumes from a well-maintained butane (or alcohol) stove operated correctly.

In this video, the amount of propane being released was enormous, in a closed cabin. Of course, they did this for time constraints and a slow leak could likely create the same amount of concentrated gas.

I see the biggest danger being a closed up boat with a faulty/leaky gas tank or valve. Storing fuel above decks seems to be the wise method.

From what I can learn from Google, most boat explosions are not from cooking fuel but gasoline (and poorly gimbaled stoves I'm joking). Inboard fuel tanks and engines have many failure points. Fortunately, our boats, by design, house gasoline fuel in the cockpit with plenty of ventilation.

I will say, our Magma grill is mounted off the stern within feet of the fuel tanks. I've often thought that was too close.

[Tomfoolery]

From what I can learn from Google, most boat explosions are not from cooking fuel but gasoline (and poorly gimbaled stoves I'm joking). Inboard fuel tanks and engines have many failure points. Fortunately, our boats, by design, house gasoline fuel in the cockpit with plenty of ventilation.

The engine is also outside the boat. Inboard gasoline (but not diesel) boats are required to have bilge blowers to ventilate the engine space before starting the engine, to prevent gasoline vapor explosions. I think, but don’t know for fact, that most nasty boat fires are from improper engine room/bilge ventilation procedures and/or malfunctioning bilge blowers.

Gasoline fumes being much heavier than air is also why the garage floor is something like one foot lower than the house at the interior door. And why gas or oil fired water heaters or furnaces/boilers in garages are mounted off the floor some distance.

I don’t worry about any of this, but I do use best practices, as that’s all that’s needed. IMO only, of course.

[Jimmyt]

This was a VERY interesting test.

It was interesting that they had trouble getting the gas to concentrate high enough to sound the alarm.
It is my totally unprofessional opinion that a well ventilated open boat with hatches open would have trouble building up gas fumes from a well-maintained butane (or alcohol) stove operated correctly.

In this video, the amount of propane being released was enormous, in a closed cabin. Of course, they did this for time constraints and a slow leak could likely create the same amount of concentrated gas.

I see the biggest danger being a closed up boat with a faulty/leaky gas tank or valve. Storing fuel above decks seems to be the wise method.

From what I can learn from Google, most boat explosions are not from cooking fuel but gasoline (and poorly gimbaled stoves I'm joking). Inboard fuel tanks and engines have many failure points. Fortunately, our boats, by design, house gasoline fuel in the cockpit with plenty of ventilation.

I will say, our Magma grill is mounted off the stern within feet of the fuel tanks. I've often thought that was too close.

Having air movement through the boat changes everything. I did quite a bit of computer modeling of industrial ventilation, some of which included fuel vapors. That's why I had to reduce it to a stagnant case to be able to see if we were dealing with enough fuel to reach LEL/LFL in the bilge. Once you start moving air through the space, it gets really complicated. Normal cabin ventilation is probably enough to limit build-up. Also, the cabin has considerably more volume than the bilge. Finally, cabin-to-bilge connection in my boat is a small hole at the foot of the steps. The likelihood of being able to get enough concentrated vapor into the bilge from a stove leak, in a well vented cabin, is remote. Now, storing fuel in the bilge, or spilling it is a whole different matter.

Russ, I had the same thought as I was mounting my grill just feet away from my tanks - even though I know better...

Engine compartment blowers, start delay timers, spark arresting air cleaners, etc let you know that the excrement has hit the fan at least once in the past. I like having the motor outside of the boat, and the fuel tanks where vapors can't enter the bilge or cabin.

Poorly gimballed stoves... Russ, you trying to give BOAT some competition? You guys crack me up!

[Russ]

Gasoline fumes being much heavier than air is also why the garage floor is something like one foot lower than the house at the interior door. And why gas or oil fired water heaters or furnaces/boilers in garages are mounted off the floor some distance.

I don’t worry about any of this, but I do use best practices, as that’s all that’s needed. IMO only, of course.

When I built my current house, I learned much about building codes. Yes, a flame (furnace/water heater etc.) MUST be installed ABOVE the garage floor.

I have drains in the garage floors. I questioned why they aren't routed to sewer. CODE they say. You can't drain a garage floor into standard septic. Fumes could go down and be bad. Instead the garage floor drains go into a deep pocket of gravel under the floor and seep into the ground.

It makes sense. You don't want a gasoline leak going into septic systems.

On our boats, you don't want gasoline fumes having a path into the cabin. Roger designed a safe system of fumes to go overboard in the back of our boats. These are very safe boats when you think about design.

[Jimmyt]

Relative safety of options may simply boil down to fuel characteristics and packaging. Filling the cabin of our boat with a LEL/LFL concentration of methanol takes about a quart and a half. A one pound cylinder of propane will do it. Propane is 1.6 times heavier than air, while methanol vapor is 1.1 times as heavy as air. Propane is much more likely to stratify than methanol, thereby more likely to form a sufficiently concentrated layer.

Tom's Butane cartridge is only about half a pound. It would take about 1.5 lb of Butane to reach LEL/LFL. As Tom mentioned, Butane is the heavier of the three at 2.1 times the weight of air, so much more likely to lay low in still air. But, if the air isn't dead still, the smaller Butane cartridge might actually be safer.

Origo canisters hold 40 oz of fuel or 1.12 qt. Less than the 1.5 qt required for LEL/LFL in the cabin.

Note: this is looking at cabin volume, not just bilge volume.

Also, napkin grade cal's for conversational purposes. Take with a grain of salt.

Makes me very curious about that video test where they couldn't get the alarm to go off in the boat... wonder what mounting height they used for the detector. The boat appears to have had more interior volume than a Mac also...

Moral of the story: respect that little green bottle.

I'll keep using propane for my outdoor grill, but I might focus on Butane for my cabin cooker. Of course, cartridge storage would be outside still - when not in use.

[BOAT]

I was seriously considering removing part of the rear side of the galley to make room for it to swing forward without hitting the hull. A simple gantry attached near the top of the galley would make it gimbal very smoothly and if you mounted the whole thing on a pallet you could even retain the sliding function:


I was actually going to do this to the galley but I found out the gimbal rigs are really for much bigger boats (never owning a big boat myself and having little experience cooking) I decided to scrap this because I needed hot water and needed the rear of the galley to store my water heater.

Why a gimbal stove? Well, from what I have been told they are really great for solo sailors that make long trips and can't sit on the galley non stop.
I must admit when I was young I was spoiled because my mom was always down there on the pressurised alcohol stove making the coffee in the morning with pot holders my dad built into the stove. Now the wife holds the pot on the stove when we are underway so I realized I was not appreciating the need for this feature as much as I should due to my sexist upbringing and decided to check out the younger 'woke' captains on the internet to see how they boil the water in choppy seas without exploiting female labor.

Adding the term "Man Bun" in my Youtube videos search of 'Captains + Stoves' and I found a really handy gadget sailors on the internet used on small boats. A swinging little camp stove that hangs from a hook on the wall:



I think to me this makes more sense and I would mount one of these inside the mast crutch clamped to the tube there outside. And I also feel more 'woke' now and am really proud of myself. I feel I have helped the planet in some way . .

Because . . . .

PROPANE and ALCOHOL WILL KILL US ALL!!!!!

It's the end of the world!! And we will all die!! Those alcohol stoves are going to blow us all to smithereens!

[NiceAft]

BOAT,

Start singing the last part of verse two in Country Joe and the Fish’s “I Feel Like I’m Fixin’ To Die” rag. (1970)

“ And it's five, six, seven, open up the pearly gates
Ain't no time to wonder why, whoopee we're all gonna die.”

I’m old enough to remember

Ray

[Jimmyt]

If the drinkin' don't kill me; her memory will... or was it; her propane stove will...?

Intriguing concept BOAT. Build a gimballed stand atop the galley... I'll add this to my mulling.

Don't get me wrong, I could probably do without a gimballed stove. But if I'm replacing the sink and organizing storage, why not throw in a gimballed cooktop? We'll see. Right now, honey-do's and grandkids are eating most of my boat project time.

[BOAT]

Yes indeed - the time is getting closer. Man - if you watch all the news shows on TV you get the distinct impression that the world is going to be a LOT better off when my generation is dead anyways - so I guess there is nothing to mourn. Her in CA they are trying to outlaw lawnmowers because of carbon. I suspect they are coming for my stove pretty soon too.

Old people like me are sort of set in our ways - "IN MY DAY" (always a qualifier before that statement) we used alcohol to cook on the boat because fire was a problem back in the days of wooden boats with all their nooks and crannies but mostly because "In My Day" if you caught fire at sea you were dead. There was no GPS - there was no PFD - there was no one out there. The boat sank and you died.

Nowadays everyone has propane and butane and all kinds of stuff hanging off the transom including Jimmy Dean meat smokers and BBQ's and the occasional metal foundry or acetylene torch for those handy times you need to weld something. Really, what does it matter? Most all boats are in a harbor or marina or 50 feet from shore most the time now anyways so it's not really a safety issue anymore. You can burn the boat now and just swim to shore.

But would I take a boat with all that crap on it out to sea for three weeks? No way.

Although from other things I now here on the news we are all dead in 11 years anyways because of the global warming, . . so really – I say load up the propane and acetylene tanks and GO FOR IT!!

[kurz]

@ BOAT

here my gimbal alcohol stove... Love it

here the video:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a6Vwzu ... sp=sharing

So the spaghetti never geht seasick

[Tomfoolery]

Put that puppy on a motorized TV lift and you'll really have something there.

[BOAT]

Wow, and it's a two burner to boot. You guys really do like to live on the edge.

Well, leave it to kurz to out do all of us yet again.

The only way I'm gonna recover from this one is to put a gimbal on the head.

That's next I suppose, a gimbaled head - but no TV lift please - I do not want my head broadcast on network media. If i gimbal the head THEN will I finally get some respect from you guys?

Or do I need to gimbal the head AND the stove so I can cook and crap at the same time?

Oh, what's it matter , we are all gonna be dead in 11 years anyways because the glaciers are going to break loose and attack mankind.

(I'm depressed because on the news they said we are all gonna get the bat virus from Chinese food and Corona beer and get crushed by the glaciers that will run havoc upon the earth because of the global warming. Over here in California it's all they talk about on TV all day every day - I think it's getting to me.

[Highlander]

That was such B/S phoney test , first off u don,t install an sniffer alarm sensor 4ft or more above the the floor level that,s why it took over 20mins before it sounded an alarm it,s supposed to b installed as close to the lowest level in the bilge as poss. an not too close too batts either , best place in our boats is directly below the galley , on a cold damp day like in that test the gas is going to lay really low in the bilge floor area on a hot dry day it,s gonna fill the whole cabin air with fumes

Boat just think of it as having gas heating unit in the bilge free of charge just waiting on ur source of ignition when required instant heat in a flash on those days when u need it or not !

A good sniffer alarm is the only way to go " a marine unit" not one of those battery house hold one,s , remember it must b ignition protected & ur dog do,nt cut the mustard
u can also go the cheap way buy a little bird cage & put a little canary in it left in the aft berth & when it falls off it,s perch u know it,s time to evacuate the boat
or if u think u may have a gas leak just light up a candle & start lookin for the source of the leak u should find it pretty quick I,m sure
J