Mast Raising Alterations 26M

[Jimmyt]

By using snap shackles, I’m able to connect and disconnect with almost no slack. I wasn’t smart enough to get elegant with the geometry. I just lined up on the step pivot and got them as tight as I could.

It works great in the driveway. The true test is on the water, or at the ramp. Will report upon testing.

[BOAT]

But asking Tom is good too

One thing that actually is not so good is that the baby stays are too short,

Yeah, I mentioned that in my previous post that I would make the baby stays that are permanent on the mast a LOT higher so there is less baby stay dragging on the deck when they are disconnected. Being longer would make them work better. Longer ones are also better as an emergency stay.

I also wanted to set the baby stays to be a little forward of the mast on the deck so they get looser as the mast goes higher. The regular stays take over as the mast goes vertical. I think turnbuckles at the bottom are also a good idea. Ge whiz, in the old days ALL our stays had turnbuckles - why not just have them on the baby stays too?

[Jimmyt]

Higher connection on the mast would probably be better - I was trying to use the original MRS stays.

It’s going to be a delicate balance if you try to get them loose just as the standing rigging gets tight. Turnbuckles would probably be the only way to pull it off. Working out the measurements is one thing. Making everything to those exact dimensions is a whole different ball game (at least for me).

[BOAT]

Higher connection on the mast would probably be better - I was trying to use the original MRS stays.

It’s going to be a delicate balance if you try to get them loose just as the standing rigging gets tight. Turnbuckles would probably be the only way to pull it off. Working out the measurements is one thing. Making everything to those exact dimensions is a whole different ball game (at least for me).

It's really easy - just move the connection point slightly forward and that will do it - if you make the stays long enough you will not notice the slack at that point because the mast will be almost all the way up. BUT! if the stay was only on ONE SIDE that would not matter now, would it!?!

HEY TOM! back to this pole thing - so now that we have established a solid line from higher up on the mast to the deck this really makes the whisker pole even more practical. The pole can be PERMANENTLY hinged on the side of the mast? And to make things even better make it a sliding locking deal - so you just pull the lower part of the pole away from the bottom of the mast and slide out the sliding section, lock it, and connect to the deck and go raise the mast with the spinnaker hound. Easy Peasy.

If you put a two way (gimbal) hinge on the top of the pole you can also use it as a storm stay for a storm jib or even as a ladder to climb the mast.

winner winner chicken dinner

[Jimmyt]

If you’re standing still on land, a little slack might be ok. Not sure about if you’re afloat. Since Ray likes to drop the mast in a high wake zone, it might be an issue. As you point out, the longer the stays, the less impact a slight amount of slack. The ~7 ft stays have to be spot on to limit sway to my comfort level.

I like your multi function strut idea. Can’t wait till you flesh it out!

[BOAT]

Yeah - I like the strut idea because it eliminates the whole issue of slack - slack is not longer an issue if you have a pole on ONE SIDE.

Even if the geometry is not perfect it does not matter - the pole on one side eliminates all those problems because if it's just one one side there is not slackness to deal with from the OTHER side - the mast just leans a tiny bit to port or starboard as it travels up - there would be ZERO mast sway through the entire process.

A single pole on ONE side eliminates mast sway, slack, AND mast rotation. And disconnecting it is never an issue because IT'S NEVER UNDER EXTREME PRESSURE - there is no stay on the other side to crate the pressure in the first place.

A pole eliminates:
mast sway
slackness or tightness in the stays
needing perfect geometry on the connection point.
needing a winch.

TOM! You get what I am saying, right?

[Highlander]

Here,s is a couple pic,s of the Baby stays on my when I owned it , I never removed they were fairly high up on the mast & were great for holding onto when going forward






I,ll see if I can find a pic wi a side view of the alingment of the brkt,s to the mast pivot point
J

[BOAT]

Here,s is a couple pic,s of the Baby stays on my when I owned it , I never removed they were fairly high up on the mast & were great for holding onto when going forward






I,ll see if I can find a pic wi a side view of the alingment of the brkt,s to the mast pivot point
J

The 19 was a great boat.

[Jimmyt]

Here,s is a couple pic,s of the Baby stays on my when I owned it , I never removed they were fairly high up on the mast & were great for holding onto when going forward






I,ll see if I can find a pic wi a side view of the alingment of the brkt,s to the mast pivot point
J

Looks like a lotta sails in front of that mast... I'm sensing a recurring theme here!

[Jimmyt]

Yeah - I like the strut idea because it eliminates the whole issue of slack - slack is not longer an issue if you have a pole on ONE SIDE.

Even if the geometry is not perfect it does not matter - the pole on one side eliminates all those problems because if it's just one one side there is not slackness to deal with from the OTHER side - the mast just leans a tiny bit to port or starboard as it travels up - there would be ZERO mast sway through the entire process.

A single pole on ONE side eliminates mast sway, slack, AND mast rotation. And disconnecting it is never an issue because IT'S NEVER UNDER EXTREME PRESSURE - there is no stay on the other side to crate the pressure in the first place.

A pole eliminates:
mast sway
slackness or tightness in the stays
needing perfect geometry on the connection point.
needing a winch.

TOM! You get what I am saying, right?

A single strut would simplify things.
Seems like you'd still need a gin pole and a winch, or a gin pole like Tom uses, with either the deck winch or a block and tackle. But, I'm waiting to see what your mad genius plan is!

[BOAT]

You still need a gin pole to get started (I think - there was this old guy with an X boat that was raising his mast without a gin pole and I have asked Newell for his video because I think he knew him) but otherwise, i think a gin pole is needed - but not a winch. If you used the spinnaker hound to raise the mast all you need is a simple 3 way block - (I think the old man in the video was using a 2 way block!!)

[Jimmyt]

If you're referring to the Murv Barry video, it looks like he was raising with the forestay, and a really long gin pole. Worked like a champ. Those x baby stays are the bomb!

[Tomfoolery]

HEY TOM! back to this pole thing - so now that we have established a solid line from higher up on the mast to the deck this really makes the whisker pole even more practical. The pole can be PERMANENTLY hinged on the side of the mast? And to make things even better make it a sliding locking deal - so you just pull the lower part of the pole away from the bottom of the mast and slide out the sliding section, lock it, and connect to the deck and go raise the mast with the spinnaker hound. Easy Peasy.

If you put a two way (gimbal) hinge on the top of the pole you can also use it as a storm stay for a storm jib or even as a ladder to climb the mast.

winner winner chicken dinner

Why not just use a line control whisker pole, with jaw mount to a sliding ring on the front of the mast in the usual fashion, and a ring at the deck? It will work as a whisker pole, and as a mast raising stay.

But it would have to be either fixed length, or line-control. A twist lock would not, IMO, be reliable enough. If it collapses under load, the mast goes sideways with it. The line control version would have to have a decent stop at full extension so it doesn't pull apart.

Or use an aluminium pole and roll your own. Real line-control whisker and spinnaker poles are very expensive. I found a used one for surprisingly cheap that I used on my keel boat, but sold it with the boat. I kind of regret that, but honestly, it was much too big for the Mac. I used the spinnaker halyard to take some of the weight, in fact.

But if there's any interest in a whisker pole, especially a fixed length pole, this would be an easy bit of functionality to add.

[BOAT]

On the sliding adjustment of the whisker pole I was assuming holes with a pin, not a twist lock thing - I assumed that the hole and pin method was strong enough because that's how the spreaders work. The force on the pole is a push AND a pull, so I assumed a hole and pin.

[Tomfoolery]

Line-control whisker poles have neither. You pull a line to extend the pole, and cleat it off to hold it at that length. They can't handle tension, unless they're fully extended, but as they're not intended for tension service, I don't know how much tension the stops are designed to withstand.

Twist-locks are, IMO, wholly unsuited for this sort of work. If they slip while poling out a head sail, so what? But if they slip while holding a mast straight, well, not good.

That leaves either fixed-length, or pin adjusted. Either way is fine.

"I assumed that the hole and pin method was strong enough because that's how the spreaders work."

Pins are what keep telescopic crane booms from collapsing under load, once the hydraulic cylinder(s) extend them. So yeah, pins are fine. Doesn't take much of a pin to lock something as small as we're talking about, either.