Novice Mac 26M Owner/Furler Pin Movement

[Mrskrska]

Would anyone comment on my issue with my furler pin?

I am a novice with sailing & my Mac and have just sub-let a marina berth for a few months so I can get some learning & practise in without a daily launch & retrieve.
We had a couple of days of heavy wind, so she was left tucked up in the berth with her lovely new canvas sock over her furled headsail.
I came to check on her the next day and I noticed the sock was flapping a lot in the wind and causing the whole furler to 'flap' a lot! So at that point I put a few bunjees around it - up as far up as I could reach, standing in the pulpit.

When I came back to check on her yesterday I was horrified to see that the furler connection pin had worked itself completely backward, so it was almost out!! (it was tight up to the curled cotter ring). It scared me to death thinking of the consequence of this pin failing - and now the pin has deep indents/grooves around it, in a couple of places.

I assumed that it was the constant vibration of the furler that had caused the pin to move, so I have now bungeed a rope around the furler to one stanchion to try to reduce this vibration.

Has this pin now lost its integrity and should it be replaced?
What should I be doing to stop this pin from moving backward out of position in the future?
I am thinking that it is quite scary that mast safety/integrity is riding on this little pin holding fast?
Have others set up some other failsafe methods?
Should I be leaving off the sock and just wrap the furled sail up tight with the sheets?

[Alexis]

This is kind of an old topic, but these are very legitimate interrogations for novice sailors so I decided to give you as much answer than I can. Of course, this pin (and the whole forestay connection) is a very important safety feature on any sailboat rigging.

First thing first: the design of this pin may seem light at first sight, but keep it mind that the tension should be all the time at a right angle from the pin axis. Its diameter is strong enough to support the weight (if it is still the original part, and if the rest of the rigging has been set up correctly).

Has this pin now lost its integrity and should it be replaced?

Hard to say without actually seeing it but you are still good if the dents are only superficial. If the dents are deeper that (I am guessing) 10% of the pin diameter, change it. The pin should not be dented that much anyway. If it is the case you need to find where is the problem coming from: is there too much tension (or not enough)? Is the furler hardware aggressive to the pin?...

What should I be doing to stop this pin from moving backward out of position in the future?

It is normal that the pin moves a bit in its location, and even if it seems that it is maintain in place by the cotter ring, you are still safe if the tension is adequate and constant.

Some boaters like to wrap tape around the pin to prevent it from moving around or to prevent other running rigging to mess with it. I personally tried and didn't like it because I felt I was messing up with the original design.

Now, I am wondering if the problem in your rigging could be elsewhere: for example because the forestay tension would vary too much and create a vibration when the boat is under sail? What if the other stays don't have the proper tension? Is the mast angle correct? These are clues you could follow to understand what is happening. Maybe all these are good, but just be aware that the forestay connection is only a small part of a much larger assembly whose function is to keep the mast up.

I am thinking that it is quite scary that mast safety/integrity is riding on this little pin holding fast?

Again, this is only visual (I agree with you on the feeling, though). IF you have the original parts to connect the forestay and IF these are correctly installed, this is absolutely safe. Having said that, nothing can replace common sense. Maybe you should have that checked out by a pro?

Have others set up some other failsafe methods?

I am also very afraid of the mast falling on the cockpit (we have three young children). I check the pin regularly and I know it is in good condition, but I also added a line at the bottom of the mast which would slow it down in case it falls. This line is attached to the large pin of the mast raising system (holes at the bow on the mast base) and to a permanent anchor I added where the baby stays used to connect to the mast.


I hope this helps!

[DaveC426913]

I am also very afraid of the mast falling on the cockpit (we have three young children). I check the pin regularly and I know it is in good condition, but I also added a line at the bottom of the mast which would slow it down in case it falls. This line is attached to the large pin of the mast raising system (holes at the bow on the mast base) and to a permanent anchor I added where the baby stays used to connect to the mast.

A simple and quick failsafe: if you have a spare foresail halyard, you can simply lash it to the pulpit. It will prevent a catastrophic mast collapse long enough to get forward and fix the problem.

[Ponaldpe]

I added a eyelet to top of the mast and run a 1/4 inch line from it to the bolt where the mast mounts for road travel, that is my safety line. I did just replaced the forestay with the BWY up graded forestay, and made new standing rigging myself. Should be good for another 15 years.

[Mrskrska]

Thanks so much guys, for your helpful replies. VERY much appreciated! Definitely going to rig a failsafe rope. Cheers!

[Nautical Miles]

I've the same situation regarding motion to one end of the pin/up to the cotter ring. I would recenter it and eventually found it always worked itself in the same direction. I bought a large headed pin from Blue Water Yachts that now stops against the large "quarter" sized head and leaves the cotter ring end free from tension on the other side. I feel very safe with this and it can be view with a glance from a distance. Sail on! Good luck. NM

[bwygirl]

With regards to the pin that attaches the roller furling to the chainplate at the bow, this pin should be in tight and there should be a fair amount of pressure on it. Check to see if your upper shrouds are tight. If not then you need to get them tighter. When you pin the headstay it should be very difficult to pin, you may require an extra person so that one person is pulling on the furler and one is pinning. If the shrouds are loose the headstay will shake and the pin could come out, but that would only happen if the ring is also gone! Do not use ball lock pins as the balls fail in those pins and then the pin will fall out.

The hoist up jib cover, can blow around and cause the headstay to shake. To reduce this, again, tighten the upper shrouds / tune the shrouds. And, use a small line that you attach to the cover as you hoist it up, then after the cover is all the way up wrap the line around the sail cover 6 or more times and tie it to the bow cleat tight. As you put pressure on the cover it will stop or at least slow down the flapping that is causing the shaking. But, this still won't help if the shrouds are loose.

Don't worry about the pin coming out while sailing, unless it is a ball lock pin. There is more tension on the pin while sailing and it should not be moving at all. But, if the shrouds are loose than the whole furler will shake.

Lastly since the boat is new to you, and you have this problem, look at the top of the headstay to be sure that it does not have any damage to the headstay ( the wire coming out of the top of the furler )

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

Also too
Pull your sheets forward and tie them tightly around your headsail. This will reduce some of the flapping.

[Starscream]

In my opinion the best safety against is the "failsafe rope", aka the backup halyard. A rope, a turnbuckle, a snapshackles and a mast hound are all it takes.

In this photo you can see my failsafe rope attached to the mast-carrying bracket on the bow pulpit. The turnbuckle is there so that it can be loosened and easily snapped into place, then tightened to draw the mast forward and make it easy to pin the furler. It has another function as well: when I am rigging the mast single handed (no MRS installed, yet), I add a docking line to the snap-shackle and run the docking line back to the base of the mast. That way when the mast is upright and I have to go forward, I can just tie off the bow line on a stanchion and quickly head forward to grab the furler and pin it.



Yeah, I know: don't depend on snapshackles...but since this is totally a backup line only, I am OK with gambling that I won't have a furler pin failure and a snapshackle failure at the same time. Murphy be damned.

[NiceAft]

In my opinion the best safety against is the "failsafe rope", aka the backup halyard. A rope, a turnbuckle, a snapshackles and a mast hound are all it takes.

In this photo you can see my failsafe rope attached to the mast-carrying bracket on the bow pulpit. The turnbuckle is there so that it can be loosened and easily snapped into place, then tightened to draw the mast forward and make it easy to pin the furler. It has another function as well: when I am rigging the mast single handed (no MRS installed, yet), I add a docking line to the snap-shackle and run the docking line back to the base of the mast. That way when the mast is upright and I have to go forward, I can just tie off the bow line on a stanchion and quickly head forward to grab the furler and pin it.



Yeah, I know: don't depend on snapshackles...but since this is totally a backup line only, I am OK with gambling that I won't have a furler pin failure and a snapshackle failure at the same time. Murphy be damned.

I read “ A rope, a turnbuckle, a snapshackles and a mast hound are all it takes.”. That’s like saying you get some flour, water, apples, eggs, and sugar, and that’s all it takes to make a pie. How about a good photo! It would certainly help me understand.

Ray

[Starscream]

How's this:



I actually forget how I attached the "rope" to the new mast-hound...it may have been just a bowline or if that didn't feel right I may have put a small stainless anchor shackle up there. Now that I think of it I'm pretty sure I did put some sort of fitting where the rope meets the mast hound.

I'm not sure how models other than the X are made to carry the mast at the bow pulpit, but my X has a welded fitting on the pulpit which carries the foot of the mast while trailering. The fitting accepts the same 4" bolt that holds the foot of the mast when it's in its upright position on the deck plate.

I've often told myself that I should take a bunch of detailed photos of the boat all over the place so that when questions come up here I can contribute in a better way than trying to zoom in on some action photo.

[NiceAft]

Starscream said:

I've often told myself that I should take a bunch of detailed photos of the boat all over the place so that when questions come up here I can contribute in a better way than trying to zoom in on some action photo.

You should have listened to that wise person.


Now this is to bwygirl.

Cheryl,

Will this system hold up, or could the pulpit be ripped up by the sudden failure of the furler pin?

Ray

[bwygirl]

That is a good question! The answer is maybe the bow rail could be ripped right out of the deck or damaged. But, If there is not a jarring sudden pull on the rail then the rail may be fine. We have never attached the spinnaker to the bow rail for just that reason, the spinnaker with its power and jarring could potentially rip the bow rail out. But try attaching another line under the bow rail, opposing the other line, down to the chainplate. As long as it does not interfere with the roller this may be a solution. I have never had an issue with the failing of a pin or a headstay, just make sure they are all in good condition and the stays are tight and you should not need to have the extra safety line while sailing, at the dock it still may be a good idea.

[Starscream]

Well, if I lose the furler pin without the backup forestay then the mast is coming down. If I lose the pin with the backup forestay, one of two things will happen: 1) the mast won't come down 2) I will Iose the mast and the bow pulpit.

If I'm going to lose my mast, you might as well take my bow pulpit too. And my dodger, while you're at it. Hopefully no person gets taken out at the same time. I'll keep the backup forestay.

But I do hate that furler pin. It always works its way out so that only the ringding is holding the pin in place. I have the BWY long pin, and while it's much easier to handle and less likely to lose, it's no better than a regular-sized pin at staying put. I always tap it back into position at the dock, but I'm sure it's always back to the ringding in a few minutes of sailing.

[NiceAft]

Would a cotter pin give you more confidence than a ring ding?