Question to those who have used their kicker

[whgoffrn]

Just curious to those who have used their kicker when the main outboard broke down ......I've always wanted to put a bracket on and finally decided to however I'm gonna take the easy way out and make a kicker mount that slides into the rudder bracket..... so much less work involved.....two boards with brackets screwed in for support and 1 hole drilled through and done ..... if my main outboard breaks down I'm already having a bad day so I dont guess it would be too many more curse words to unbolt 1 rudder and slide in this bracket .... my question is if a 3.5 hp engine is enough to push a mac.... if its windy I'd be using sails so doubt I'd be fighting much for swells if I'm at the point of unbolting a rudder..... my dinghy motor is a 2.5hp but I've done a mod I seen on YouTube that supposedly squeezes out another 1hp out of it bringing it to 3.5hp I just wonder if this would even move it in small 1 to 2 foot seas ?????

[dive4it]

Hello! You're devised system sounds good but here are a few points that I have learned from experience (the hard way). First, your main will never conk out at a "good" time....It's always when menouvering in a tight harbor, avoiding giant ships, in heavy current, etc. I was in Victoria BC, rounding out of the outer harbor when my overheat buzzer came on. I looked to see the main wasn't "pi$$" so I shut it down. The wind was medium, current taking us closer to the breakwater. I started back up the main to get us out of danger (knowing it wasn't cooling) and shut it off again as the buzzer came back almost instantly. No worries, it took me ten seconds to drop the 4hp kicker on the swivel bracket into the water and pull start it. I keep in locked in center steering so I can just use the rudders for steerage. The 4hp gets me up to 5 1/2 knots easily (answer to your HP question) and I was able to avoid the seaplane landing and big ferry boat coming toward us. I was thankful that it was quick and easy. I feel that if I had to take five minutes to do the switch, it would have put us in a very bad situation.
A few things to note: The Garelic kicker bracket was no big deal to install (I cut an access and installed a screw on plate for access to the bolts).
It makes it an easy way to store the outboard (I keep it there and trailer with it there as well, no problems)
When you lower it down, it's close to water level and makes it super easy to transfer to the dinghy
Quick to get in in the water and started to get underway to avoid hazzards
Can still use rudders to steer with when using kicker.

I hope this info helps in your decision making.

JT

[BOAT]

Yup, I'm with JT on this one - the ONLY time the OB was a 'no go' was when I was in a crowded harbor or close to the rocks and It does not matter that in all cases it was all my fault
Know Thyself:
You can tell from this post I am not the brightest light bulb in the knife drawer when it comes to power-boating. I am NOT a power boater. You may be different because you might be a GREAT power-boater.
What you really need to know is what will YOU do in a crisis, what is your first instinct? I might handle a crisis differently than another person and you need to know how YOU would handle a crisis when your in one.

In the first case - I was just motoring up the harbor channel as usual when I caught the key leash on my thumb and pulled the key out. The motor stopped. I put the key back in and turned it to restart the motor - nothing - not even a crank. Well the starter is electric so I am thinking "fuses?" "Battery?" "Is there a switch I'm missing?" "Perko?" and all the while I'm tinkering with the ignition and looking at the Perko and my wife is starting to panic: "The Rocks!!" I hear my wife scream - she is getting scared because we are drifting into the rocks. When I realized we were in serious trouble and about 30 seconds from hitting the rocks all MY instincts about being on a boat kicked in - I just grabbed a sail sheet and started pulling out a sail - I unfurled about 50% of head sail and gently sailed away from the breakwater and turned the boat around and sailed it right to the gas dock that was on the other side of the harbor. I sailed the head-sail right up to about 50 feet from the dock and then just furled it in and drifted right to the dock and tied off just like I had done a hundred times before on my previous boats because they had no outboard or motor. I told the gas guy "my motor won't start!" and he immediately said "Is it in gear?" (MAN! am I stupid . . )

The other time I ran the tank dry - well when you run the tank dry guess what? The motor will not start because when you switch to the new tank the hose is dry and the motor is dry and you need to pump and pump and crank and crank to get the motor to start again!!! Same deal there - I went dry entering the harbor mouth where the most traffic is. Pump pump crank crank - no motor and Five power boat cabin cruisers all bearing down - and you know what my first instinct was? "Ha! If I raise sails I have the right of way and I can barge them!!" - See, all my racing instincts to screw my opponent kicked in - and it worked - I unfurled the head-sail and they all gave me berth and I sailed right into the harbor. ("Screw the engine, screw the powerboats!"). I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying: That's MY first inclination - that's what comes natural to ME in a crisis. You need to know YOU.

Yes, I learned the lesson that you do not run the tank dry - you stop - switch tanks - and then proceed
Yes, I learned the lesson that you need to make sure the gear shiftier (shifter?) is in neutral before you start the motor or the starter will not work.

But, My instincts at the split second when something needed to be done was to SAIL. That's what I knew, that's what I had always done in the past because I had no other option in the past. What would YOU do?

[Highlander]

drop an anchor , open another Beer ! call sea-tow then see if I can resolve the issue ! , if not then sit back & bring out the Scotch
Now in Victoria Harbor it,s one of the biggest & busiest Sea Plane Airports in the world, also has about four diff. passenger/car Ferries coming & going all the time , not to mention the Cruise Ship Terminal & Coast Guard Station at the entrance . The Esquimalt Navy & Military Base & Navy Docks just around the corner , Freighter,s & Tug Boats pulling Barges , U get the picture ! so it is a no sail zone period it,s patrolled by lots of Harbor Police u wander 2ft out of that channel & they r right on top of U ! . But of coarse as always u get into trouble where did everyone go !
Anyways I would not recommend installing an O/B Kicker on to a rudder brkt some of the have a Alum one & they break just under rudder torq & the S/S ones will bend so not a good Idea
As said in an Emg. situation u r not going to have time to b dealing with changing out a rudder for an O/B kicker & trying to do that in 2-3ft sea,s
I have an 6HP Merc 4 stroke for my 10ft Walker bay I also Have an Four Stroke O/B Kicker Mount Brkt which I will some day install on my Transom as a few guy,s on here have done to their & for an Emg. back up which can b just dropped down & started so I,m also interested to hear how well the boat handles with a kicker
Also remember that the four stroke kickers have a lot more Torq so u have to buy one " Kicker Mount" made for 4 strokes as they r away lot stronger to handle the extra Torq
As an after thought if u did break down in the No Sail Zone & put out a head sail I,d bet they would b right on Top of U !

J

[sailboatmike]

Murphy's Law, sh~t only happens at the worse possible time, the depth of the sh~t is directly proportional to the the amount of trouble you are in.

Even the best brains go haywire under sudden stress and the ability to think clearly can be lost in a second (read Boats post a couple up).

I had much the same experience as boat, we were out, wind picked up alarmingly, so we decide to run for home, but need to get the sails down so need to turn into the wind, no probs just start the motor one thinks with the normal arrogance the 75hp will spin us around in a second.

Turn key, cranks over, but no fire, Hmmm turn key again, still no fire, immediately brain goes into diagnostic mode, why wont this bloody thing start, it ALWAYS starts second crank AT WORST even after a couple of months of not being run, rest it for a few seconds, turn key cranks but still not firing.

Mind flashes fuel, quick check, yep bulb is hard, check horizon, bugger we are getting close to going aground, THEN a quick moment of clarity - PRESS THE CHOKE IN WHEN YOU CRANK - and OFF SHE GOES. Something so simple that I have to do everytime I start the motor, yet in the time of stress in completely eluded me.Think to myself, stupid Mercury motors, why do they need choke EVERYTIME you start them even if they have been off for 5 minutes, I should of been thinking stupid me, how could I forget to give it choke!!!

[whgoffrn]

Good points ...probably right.....I've not had my outboard konk out on me (yet) but you're right when it does it will prob be going under a drawbridge or when 20 other boats are around .... I guess I was afraid I'd get the measurements off and the outboard either not go down far enough and prop barely in the water or submerge the whole thing ..... I've seen where lots have those brackets where it can come up and down are they adjustable? I have a short shaft 2.5hp 2 stroke mercury ....I'll have to start looking at pics to see where most peoples placement is for the bracket

[Baha]

First time out with the family, I am nicely working down the River Orwell, boats on moorings on both sides. I had my genoa up and was somewhat distracted with my grandson. My wife, sitting up on the bow says “you see that boat, right?” CRAP!!! I hit the starter.....nada.... double crap!!! I should have gibed away from the moored yacht I was quickly bearing down on, but I tacked instead, tried to turn inside it and against the current. I jumped to the rail to fend off, and almost did. His anchor roller smacked hard, just missing a window. I have a nice battle scar on the inside now, and always idle the engine when around moored boats.

[Curwen]

Good lessons here!

Some things I would have never thought of. Thank you!

[Highlander]

Here,s the Mod I,m thinking about doing
http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/in ... ?view=1931

J

[DaveC426913]

"Ha! If I raise sails I have the right of way and I can barge them!!" - See, all my racing instincts to screw my opponent kicked in - and it worked - I unfurled the head-sail and they all gave me berth and I sailed right into the harbor. ("Screw the engine, screw the powerboats!"). I'm not saying it's right ...

You sound like you don't think it was the right thing to do, but it was really the only correct option.

While you were adrift (not at anchor and not underway), you were a boating hazard.
Who knows how much time would elapse before you could get the motor started?

By raising your sail, you were
1] taking early and substantial action
2] regaining control of your vessel, and
3] clearly signaling the other vessels that they need to give you a respectful space.

[Highlander]

That,s all well & fine if u have wind !
If not u r at the mercy of the tides & currents at least by raising the sails u will b drawing more attention to ur Boat
even if u have wind if u r going against the tide & currents in a restrained area u might end up going back out into open water which might not b desirable with no engine depending on the weather forecast ?
J

[BOAT]

That,s all well & fine if u have wind !
If not u r at the mercy of the tides & currents at least by raising the sails u will b drawing more attention to ur Boat
even if u have wind if u r going against the tide & currents in a restrained area u might end up going back out into open water which might not b desirable with no engine depending on the weather forecast ?
J

Yeah John, there are two levels of emergency that we react to - this is what I was taught in the Power Squadron when we got our Celestial Navigation Training and Basic Seamanship and CPR and emergency medical practices - My dad had a large amount of Navy experience behind him and he was concerned that we did not have enough training as a family to react to actual life threatening emergencies - he had done a good job teaching us what you call "ship operational emergencies" in other words - when it comes to actions in regards to the safety of the boat or damage to the ship - that's a level 1 emergency. In those cases you think fast - you go with your gut - and that's why you need to know how YOU react in those situations. As long as the boat is floating, your in a level 1 crisis and any decision is really considered "valid" if it comes from the Captain and it's intention is to protect the boat, and it's equipment - dad called this "mission critical" you are keeping the boat intact so you can continue with "the mission" (in our case: the vacation, or whatever).

The next level are real emergencies where life is in immediate danger.
That's different - if life is in immediate danger you need to switch to a very well planned and rehearsed set of procedures designed to prevent loss of life. These are the situations where lawyers and insurance companies and consequences are too serious to leave to gut reactions - in those situations you need to rely on training.

If the boat were actually ON THE ROCKS my entire frame of mind would have shifted to the hard fast rules they pounded into my head in regards to PROTECTING LIFE. In those cases - the boat and equipment comes second and all decisions are made with the priority of saving lives. If the boat was going to ground my first reaction would be to abandon ship - to get the crew onto safe ground or overboard away from danger. You can't just wait around for someone to come save you - the law requires you to take action to save your crew - that's the law of the sea as I was taught in Power Squadron: I AM RESPONSIBLE, so I have a set of rules and procedures that have been drummed into my head and practiced over and over to get me through an emergency that would cause the loss of my crew. In those cases the crew must be saved, even if I can't be saved - thus the tradition of the Captain going down with the ship which the whole point of not that the Captain MUST DIE if he loses the boat, the whole point is that the Captain needs to be prepared to give up his life for his crew. The crew must be saved FIRST - the crew must survive the boat and the captain FIRST. Thus, the captain deserves respect from the crew.
In that light, we all do MOB practice - it's the same thing. You practice how to save your crew. In the case of running aground where there was no time for life rafts I was taught to abandon on the windward side the ship and to keep the crew together in the water and use the ship as protection until I can get my crew to land. If life rafts are deployed the same applies - protect the raft with the ship as long as possible.

In those cases the boat is not important - the mission is over. It's just survival.

[Chinook]

Others have covered the issues well. I had a retractable Fulton kicker mount installed on our boat, and I recently installed one on a friend's boat. Cutting the access hole, like said above, allows access for installing backing plate and nuts. Not that hard a job. When I'm running my 2.5 hp Suzuki to push the Mac, I lock the kicker in place and use the rudders for steering. It pushes the boat fine in settled conditions, but would stall out with any amount of wind and seas on the bow. On our Loop cruise, we used the kicker to get in to a dock twice, but both times under favorable conditions. Highlander's comment about the anchor being the most important piece of safety gear in such conditions is right on. I like the part about beer and, in serious situations, a shot of Scotch. Unlimited towing insurance through Boat US is $126/year, and provides cost effective peace of mind.

[NiceAft]

Others have covered the issues well. I had a retractable Fulton kicker mount installed on our boat, and I recently installed one on a friend's boat. Cutting the access hole, like said above, allows access for installing backing plate and nuts. Not that hard a job. When I'm running my 2.5 hp Suzuki to push the Mac, I lock the kicker in place and use the rudders for steering. It pushes the boat fine in settled conditions, but would stall out with any amount of wind and seas on the bow. On our Loop cruise, we used the kicker to get in to a dock twice, but both times under favorable conditions. Highlander's comment about the anchor being the most important piece of safety gear in such conditions is right on. I like the part about beer and, in serious situations, a shot of Scotch. Unlimited towing insurance through Boat US is $126/year, and provides cost effective peace of mind.

Mike,

It’s always good to read your posts.

Your’s and Sandy’s experience on your trips are sources of valuable information, but I have some concerns when it comes to a kicker motor.

(1st). With the motor so far below the captains seat, how difficult is it to pull start it?
(2nd). ” ” ” ” ” ” ” ” ” ” ” ” ” ” place it in foreword, or reverse, quickly?
(3rd) ” ” ” Throttle up, or down?

Ray

P.S. After meeting Sandy, Nat has the courage to take a cruise of more than a day. It’s been awhile since meeting, but next summer we will take a week or so cruise to Annapolis, MD. Please give our regards.

[BOAT]

Remember - I am not a power boater - so tell me - what exactly is the "kicker" for? If you have a 60 horse on the back what is the purpose of the "kicker"?