Weak links in the macgregor

[whgoffrn]

Sitting at home during these cold winter days has me once again day dreaming / fantasizing if I'm ready for a trip to the exumas again...... I've read and read (and still will continue to read more) of the blogs others have taken to the exumas and each season and year added to my arsenal of "what if this broke and what is my back up plan" ..... things I commonly see break are

1. the front stay ....ive gotten one of the larger size from bwy and I also tie a small yet strong 2klb rope to the top of the mast as a back up plan ...keep the original on the boat...i actually have replaced all the stays and keep the originals on boat as backups

2 rudders And brackets...i have a 99x with the stainless steel brackets and I have a shark drogue I got from fiorentino as a back up to steer with drogue if necessary

3 I'm not sure I've seen this as a problem but I've had a 3rd higher reef put in my main and a roller furler so I can really cut down on size of canvas

4 water in gas or crappy fuel.... I haven't yet but plan to get a water separator in fuel line and fuel tester

5 Lack of storage .... I don't plan to store water on boat as I found a reasonably priced water maker and i have lined my boat in cargo netting on insides to aid in more room

I have a fridge , solar , generator 2k, a 25lb and a 35lb Mantus anchor hypalon dinghy and working on getting a better motor for my dinghy and a LONG extensive list of various things to make a long 2 month trip easier safer and more fun....i feel like I know what things to bring with me but wonder if I'm missing another piece or two of "weak links" in the boat that building process of the boat that I might could address during the winter as I day dream and read sumner and chinooks blogs for the hundredth time

[sailboatmike]

EPIRB and PLB (Personal Locator Beacon)are two that come to mind.

I would personally get rid of the 75Hp motor is I was going to take on long trips, a 15Hp would do the job just as well at keeping her at hull speed, this would lighten the fuel load greatly, while the 75 is not a fuel guzzler at low speed, it still drinks about twice what a 15Hp would or you could have a mounting bracket and use the dinghy motor as a kicker if your going to motor for extended periods

[whgoffrn]

Yeah there's lot of things to buy.. most of which I have ...xm weather ais 2 vhf a lengthy list of safety stuff fiorentino sea anchor to compliment the drogue ..... my main concern is what on the boat breaks commonly in these long multi month trips in waters that a macgregor probably isn't really designed for.

While it's obvious our boats can do the trip I've read at least a couple trips that didn't go so well and where the limitations of our boats started to show

If I had to guess it's the rudders....while the brackets I have are stainless and supposedly stronger (I've already got back up p bolts for them from bwy) I can imagine how a rudder or two could snap if large waves were raising the back of the boat and then the boat was falling off at an angle on the rudder how the pop cycle sticks could snap..... so I can't help but wonder if I glassed in rebar around the top where all the forces would be at the highest ...would that help?
I already have a drogue....if I did find myself in the unfortunate mess of having large following seas should I just pull up the rudders and use my drogue to steer? Just day dreaming ...thinking....plotting
But wondering if there is another weak area that breaks a lot that should get some attention

[sailboatmike]

Maybe some thin Aluminium sheet on each of the top of each rudder, forces would be greatest when the rudder meet the bracket.

Packing a spare rudder may be an option, even just made out of wood, hey its better than no rudder

[whgoffrn]

I considered that or having some thin steel cut to match the top 1/3 of the rudder and glass it in ...but not sure if it's just easier or makes better sense to use the drogue before a rudder breaks

I've never had a large following sea ...the largest squall I've got caught in was a nasty one but I headed into the wind as close as I could to attempt to slow me down .... it was scary but I didn't feel too unsafe .... but I did learn that it rounds up badly in blasts even pointing as close as u can and reefed.... how they did it on macgregor videos I have no idea .... I'm trying to concoct a way to temporarily move the main sheet block farther towards bow during storms to move the point the force is on the boat up and with a smaller canvas 3rd reef it should eliminate the problems I had last trip in keys with weather helm and rounding up in storms ....or so I hope

[socalmacer]

One thing not mentioned is a good group of cruising friends. The family we know that cruised around the world for 5 years in most cases never cruised alone. The old saying "safety in numbers" was very applicable here. Don't get me wrong, I'm an advocate for being well prepared but the collective experience, another set of hands and many other boats can go along way in getting yourself out of a predicament. Anyway, that's my two sense.

[armadillo]

Im having the same dream. One day, checking what could be the nightmare, I focused on the crossing of the Gulf Stream. If the best way to pass is with no wind, the engine wont have a backup. I decided to attach an additional engine mount for the dinghy motor. That also makes easier to move the engine to the dinghy.

[kadet]

I would not worry about rudders much. I doubt an or an could be successfully steered with a drogue anyway. You have a lot of redundancy in the steering, 2 rudders plus the motor. I would much rather fashion a dinghy oar into a sweep to steer the boat if I somehow I lost both rudders and the motor to steer with

[Herschel]

"Amen" to all the above. I can only add that it may be a good time to go through your first aid kit. I find they often need updating and supplementing. I like to imagine how easily I could get to the right stuff with my non-dominant hand. Yep, had to do that once. Wasn't pretty! And I like to have plenty of bandaging for moderate to severe bleeding, more than just the band aids they put in the kits. And checking the expiration dates on inflatable PFD's and flairs.

[Ixneigh]

The factory mast hardware is a weak link. The mast pivot pivot unit is a weak link. Inspect that carefully or have it beefed up. The boat will need to sail well. Do NOT weigh her down with "stuff". Watermaker is good. Have good heavy air sails. Third reef is good. Consider a way to fly a dedicated heavy air jib. Its usually windy. Inside has to be secure. Take the boat out in 20 knots for a few days. Make sure stuff stays put. Ill be using my anchor and rode as a drouge if need be. Elsewise have a good stout small jib you can fly while running. That with the 20 lb anchor and 100 feet of line off the stern should keep her from rounding up. Also put the motor down. Ill be making a rudder add on that will fit on the motor lower unit as a spare rudder.
When I contacted BWY about having their supplier fabricate an extra thick bracket they refused. The rudder is supposed to fail before the hull as a safety. My answer will be moar fiberglass. Of note: when the sails are correctly trimmed, there is little pressure on the rudders. My M has a nearly neutral helm.
You will want a gallon of vinylester resin, brushes, a few yards of biaxial glass and know how to use it. Maybe 2 gallons. Cheap insurance. It could mean the difference between coming home with your boat or leaving her there. Know the boat and what she can realistically do. That is important. Don't be a "follower" either. Be willing to be the only guy who doesn't leave with the pack. They all have heavy keel boats. Dont think you can run with them. (Tough watching everyone else leave) but going with other macs would be great if everyone gets along.
Finally: I think a v22.2 over there with only rigging upgrades. I think the X M models will do ok too.

Ix

[Seapup]

Do NOT weigh her down with "stuff"

Agree, buying stuff is fun, but maintenance items are much more practical. Jobs like replacing the steering cable before it seizes up.

I can only add that it may be a good time to go through your first aid kit.

+1

rudders And brackets...i have a 99x with the stainless steel brackets

Our rudders are not the same as the more complex systems and disabling failures you read about on big boats. Sometimes simple is good. I bent both my stainless rudder brackets on my 02 in following waves on a trip. They basically got pried open so the rudders flopped around loosely aggravating the problem. They did not break though. I was able to bend them back in a vise with the rudder out, but they kept bending easier and easier each time. It became a continual adjustment after heavy sailing. A fix for this may have been to drill a hole through the bracket and rudder so a stainless bolt could lock the rudder in the down position.

[BOAT]

I looked up the main cause of shipwreck and after holes in the hull it seems to be "loss of steering" - There seems to be a million ways for it to happen, one story was about getting turtled in a storm and breaking rudders - a lot of stories about breaking rudders or bent rudder shafts after collision or grounding or hitting objects - I guess you can carry spare sails and fashion all kinds of jury rigs to get underway but without a rudder it seems to be a moot point. (By the way "moot" is the Hebrew word for DEAD) Granted most of the rudder failures I saw in the stats were big boats and cargo ships - military and so forth, - but if the rudders really are a "weak Link" it might be a good idea to address that considering the statistics.

My option would be to fashion a rudder that can attach to the outboard in a time of need. The outboard could be a great rudder if everything else is busted - it would just be better if there was a way to mount a board on the OB so it would be more effective as a rudder. It's a cheap insurance policy for rudder failure that should be easy to store on board. You could also store one spare stock rudder in case one breaks.

What about the dagger board? any chance of those getting broken off or lost? (I never sailed the gulf but I hear about shallow reefs and so forth).

[Tomfoolery]

.... I'm trying to concoct a way to temporarily move the main sheet block farther towards bow during storms to move the point the force is on the boat up and with a smaller canvas 3rd reef it should eliminate the problems I had last trip in keys with weather helm and rounding up in storms ....or so I hope

I'm afraid where you connect the main sheet won't change the way the boat performs. It will change the forces on the sheet, bending moment in the boom, and the boom's reaction forces at the mast (along with the mast's reaction forces at the deck and even a little in the stays), but it won't change how the center of pressure of the main sail interacts with the center of lateral resistance of the boat.

You could glue the boom to the mast with infinitely strong glue, and an infinitely strong mast and deck connection, and it would still perform exactly the same (assuming infinitely stiff components, too). Forces and stresses internal to the system would be different, of course, but as a solid body, it would still interact with the wind and water the same. I hate to say. But I'd hate worse to see you do a bunch of work for not positive change, and possibly with negative consequences (higher local loading, for instance, that could break something).

[kurz]

concerning weak points of the
I do not trust too much to the rudders by the way. Not in the fiberglass part of the rudders - but of the ss part... The U that holds the rudders is so week and has so much play...

Maybe exately becouse of that they are reliable... We never hear of broken rudders from an ...
But still the brain is working about that...

[whgoffrn]

As suspected even with stainless steel brackets the large following seas would bend them....... I may have to experiment with my drogue the next time out....even if I can beef up my rudders the stainless brackets while stronger than the older style still may not hold up..... people use drogues to steer on larger sailboats by using bridles and attached to the sides of the boat and tying one in closer to the other to give slightly more pull on one side than the other ....being small and a water ballast boat shouldn't affect the forces on the boat ....small flickas, norseas, hobie33s and even power boats have used drag devices to steer ..... I may have to experiment with this the next time we go to the keys this spring to test the theory out but I can't imagine why it wouldn't work ????

And as far as weather helm.... I thought that the pressure applied to the boat was in between the mast and where the main sheet is connected .... being the only two connection points the main has ..... adding a 3rd reef not only brings the main down but in closer to the mast ........ unless I'm misunderstood in the physics of this pressure and the location pushes or pulls the boat I thought moving the farthest aft attachment point up moves this force up a few feet also reducing the weather helm which is caused by pressure applied to far aft and past the point of center pivot of the boat