Genoa Furler Pin Failure - Mast came down.

[dxg4848]

I don't see how it can be useful except for jet ski. I never use safety lanyard. It is too short and inconvenient in general to be practical on 26' boat. How can you move around or do anything with safety lanyard attached to your wrist.

Also I believe that wind/current moves boat faster that person can swim. Unless boat is anchored there is very little chance to swim to it in case one falls out. Then if you do fall out and manage to swim to your boat how are you planning on getting inside if you are by yourself and it is not dead come conditions. If you fall out you are screwed one way or another!

I never said I attached a lanyard to myself... only saying what the idea behind it is. I never go out single handed, and I am seldom if ever go out when conditions may turn bad. I'm a day sailor. I agree its an inconvenience. I mainly keep mine attached to the ignition key floatie. If I ever were to attempt a single hand cruise or I thought it might get bad enough to warrant it, I would try to attach that lanyard to my person though, just in case. Besides the guy falling off the boat isn't necessarily the only victim. What about whatever is in the path of the boat stuck at full throttle acceleration with no driver?

I do think however that if my life depended on it, I could swim several hundred yards to a floating boat. Current and wind may not take it further away from you, it may even push it closer to you, who knows?

I also think I can reach the boarding ladder of my when in the water to allow me to lower it and use it to step back on the boat. I think its all doable.

What if you fall out under sail? The boat will keep going especially in my case. I often single hand and use auto pilot a lot. Don't want to think about it though

If it happens it would be nice to have small water-proof hand held radio attached to life jacket

[BOAT]

I do not use the cut off line for the motor ignition key, nor do I use the one on my treadmill As for sailing I do have a harness to wear - I only use it sailing solo if I am further than 20 miles off shore or if sailing solo in bad weather. The design of the stock mac lifelines makes using the harness pretty easy. I have never fallen overboard on the harness but my dad did once - he said it's really hard to get back into the boat.

As for the fore-stay - I am curious about the pin failure - was it the pin that actually broke? Is that what happened? I too fear fore-stays so I do have a backup for the fore-stay:

I have a spinnaker bale up higher than the fore-stay and it has a halyard on it to haul up a spinnaker - but I use it to haul up my Genoa cover too - so when i remove the Genoa cover to sail I clip the spinnaker halyard to the mast support tab on the bow pulpit and that keeps the halyard out of the way and works great as a secondary fore-stay. I'm a big believer in the secondary fore-stay so something holds the mast up if the fore-stay comes loose.

Most pins work their way loose because of shock loads and luffing or flapping sails - the pin rotates and wiggles out of the hole and loses it's retainer pin and "Pop!" down comes the mast. More common than most people think. Hard core sailing people and race boat drivers (like Judy) always tape their retaining rings and their stay pins. My dad used to do it but I do not (well, I don't do it ALL the time - but sometimes I do depending on the weather - I keep rigging tape on board).

I highly recommend a spinnaker halyard - you should get one - can you elaborate on the pin failure? Are you sure the pin broke?

[Tomfoolery]

If it happens it would be nice to have small water-proof hand held radio attached to life jacket

One that floats. And is clipped through the wrist strap to the life jacket with a carabiner as a backup. If not, and you rub up against something like a sliding hatch lid while trying to secure a main sail in heavy seas and 15 kt or better winds in the dark while single-handing, it could pop off and land in Lake Ontario, for example, and sink to the bottom.

Why does that scenario sound familiar I wonder?

[Tomfoolery]

Hard core sailing people and race boat drivers (like Judy) always tape their retaining rings and their stay pins.

And many Mac owners, too. I've seen more than a few ringdings, on stays and even on lifelines, coming undone from sheets, fender lines, dock lines, and so on rubbing against them. I always tape my ringdings. And I'm not even hardcore.

[sailboatmike]

IMHO the engine cut out keys are designed for use on purely power driven craft, my motor doesnt have one and on my previous boat that had a small 8Hp motor it was always left in attached to the motor, never to me.

To me its simple, as has already been demonstrated, when you need it in a emergency it will always of fallen out or you cant get it back in, the minds spinning at 100 miles a hour, you go to start the motor and it wont fire, most people minds just dont drop into analytical mode at that point in time and run through the check list, their minds work on the most obvious or they just keep trying to spin the motor until the battery fails, thinking why wont this thing start, not even taking into account the fact that on a sail boat the damn thing can sail away from you and if there is anyone on the boat and they do have a spare they then have to find it.

SO great for a tinnie or a jetski, just one more thing to have to remember as you are heading for the rocks and the damn motor wont kick and your panicking about your safety, the safety of others onboard and the boat washing up onto the rocks on your sailboat, most peoples minds just stop working in a analytical mode when pushed into survival mode

[Havenfboat]

As for the fore-stay - I am curious about the pin failure - was it the pin that actually broke? Is that what happened? I highly recommend a spinnaker halyard - you should get one - can you elaborate on the pin failure? Are you sure the pin broke?

Here is a picture of the pin and the quick release wire. The more I think of it, I should have known better. there is no other pin like this on the boat anywhere. (trying my first picture insert).

The pin was pulled from the wire, and just worked itself loose, and likely (gasp) just fell out.

[BOAT]

IMHO the engine cut out keys are designed for use on purely power driven craft, my motor doesnt have one and on my previous boat that had a small 8Hp motor it was always left in attached to the motor, never to me.

To me its simple, as has already been demonstrated, when you need it in a emergency it will always of fallen out or you cant get it back in, the minds spinning at 100 miles a hour, you go to start the motor and it wont fire, most people minds just dont drop into analytical mode at that point in time and run through the check list, their minds work on the most obvious or they just keep trying to spin the motor until the battery fails, thinking why wont this thing start, not even taking into account the fact that on a sail boat the damn thing can sail away from you and if there is anyone on the boat and they do have a spare they then have to find it.

SO great for a tinnie or a jetski, just one more thing to have to remember as you are heading for the rocks and the damn motor wont kick and your panicking about your safety, the safety of others onboard and the boat washing up onto the rocks on your sailboat, most peoples minds just stop working in a analytical mode when pushed into survival mode

Yes, you assessment of the safety line on the key is spot on - the safety line only protects one person: the guy that goes overboard. It provides no safety for everyone else on board, and in my opinion creates danger foe everyone on board when it is lost or forgotten or fails. It's a great thing for personal water craft or other one man boats but I don't think it's real important in most other situations. I don't even like the engine gear lockout that cuts off the starting motor if the boat is in gear.

[BOAT]

As for the fore-stay - I am curious about the pin failure - was it the pin that actually broke? Is that what happened? I highly recommend a spinnaker halyard - you should get one - can you elaborate on the pin failure? Are you sure the pin broke?

Here is a picture of the pin and the quick release wire. The more I think of it, I should have known better. there is no other pin like this on the boat anywhere. (trying my first picture insert).

The pin was pulled from the wire, and just worked itself loose, and likely (gasp) just fell out.

Okay, your dismasting makes more sense to me now - your in a big club now so don't be too hard on yourself - this is the most common form of dismasting: the fore-stay pin working it's way loose -

It's very common - as the fore-stay shocks up and down and tightens and loosens under various sail forces the little pin will "walk" it's way out of the hole - then when it gets to the very end the only thing left stopping it is the little retaining clip (the 'ring ding') - in most cased the little 'ring ding' will bend and get pulled right through the hole or sometimes it will break but usually it just gets pulled right through the hole. It happens ALL THE TIME so don't feel too bad.

In your case the pin your using is not even designed for a fore-stay your pin has no 'ring ding' - that is the kind of pin used to hold a trailer hitch wheel or attach a child cart to a bike - the factory pin should be a pin with a hole and a round retainer ring (called a 'ring ding' by most here).

I do sometimes tape my fore-stay pin, my dad even taped the side stays but I never do that (cuz there are two of them) but still Judy and others will scold you if you don't tape them. Taping the pin will prevent the most common dismasting failure.

If I did not have a secondary fore-stay I would be taping my fore-stay pin ALWAYS.

You will get it fixed up in no time and that will never happen to you again. By the way, the BWY pin with the big flat head on it and the hole for the round ring dings is a good one - I have several of those.

[sailboatmike]

And todays lesson for EVERYONE (well except people who bought their boat new) is

NEVER TRUST THE PREVIOUS OWNER - Lets get serious, many Macs are bought by people that have NO sailing experience and thus NO sailboat maintenance experience, then they change this and that or just use the wrong part because they couldnt find or be bothered looking for the right part to replace it, OR maybe the different pin just looked like a good idea at the time.

And guess what they will never tell you or remember to tell you when you buy the boat off them.

If you have No or LIMITED experience, either ask someone that really knows to inspect it (not a mate of a mate who once saw a boat sail passed so in his mind is now a expert) OR get a rigger to give it a quick once over, should only take a hour and is minor cost compared to replacing the mast etc, not to mention not having it fall on a crew member

[Phil M]

Also I believe that wind/current moves boat faster that person can swim. Unless boat is anchored there is very little chance to swim to it in case one falls out. Then if you do fall out and manage to swim to your boat how are you planning on getting inside if you are by yourself and it is not dead come conditions. If you fall out you are screwed one way or another!

I agree.

[BOAT]

Also I believe that wind/current moves boat faster that person can swim. Unless boat is anchored there is very little chance to swim to it in case one falls out. Then if you do fall out and manage to swim to your boat how are you planning on getting inside if you are by yourself and it is not dead come conditions. If you fall out you are screwed one way or another!

I agree.

Yeah, you guys are right, it's impossible - I have tried as a youngster - I lost that bet to my dad one day. Without a harness attaching you to the boat with a line you can't get back to boat and even then it's really hard to pull yourself back, but it is doable. That was how my dad taught me the lesson of wearing a harness when sailing solo - he pushed me off when underway after I said I could swim back if I fell in.

There is a really neat feature on my auto pilot remote control that might help in situations where I fall out without a harness and no one on board - the little water proof remote control that hangs around my neck has a mode called MOB

If I am in the water (and still within range of the wireless on the boat) I can select the MOB on the remote and it will force the boat to go in circles. It's not a cure all for sure but in a pinch it might be a good thing to remember.

For the most part the rule is that in small boats out in the ocean you are to wear a harness like I did as a kid when I sailed solo - but now that I am older I also add a life vest to that mix if the weather is dicey. I'm not as strong in the water as I used to be.

[Ponaldpe]

Also I believe that wind/current moves boat faster that person can swim. Unless boat is anchored there is very little chance to swim to it in case one falls out. Then if you do fall out and manage to swim to your boat how are you planning on getting inside if you are by yourself and it is not dead come conditions. If you fall out you are screwed one way or another!

I agree.

I used to help on a sport fishing boat , had no idea what I was doing, But the boat captain was great at finding fish, If the water was a little rough and the fisher men were beer drinkers.He had me put out a floating line for them to grab when they fell overboard. It works, one of the guys was giving his beer the ocean the hard way and over he went, he got the line and we got back on the boat. Now when ever I have someone in the water swimming /snorkeling I put out a floating line. I keep saying I am going to do that sailing single handed but never have, Sailing is not quit the same as drifting .