Any news on the Tattoo 22?

[Ixneigh]

To me in business, you sell it till it doesn't sell anymore.
The potters are still being made. Other boats sell well. Don't forget you can make your own market too. Simple stuff like a happening website. Videos of current owners doing stuff while using the product.
Etc.
Ix

[K9Kampers]

People still asking where / when they can get a Tattoo 26 / 22. Seems to be some kind of demand there. The question is then, is it profitable enough for the supplier to try to fill that demand?

You're right about making your own market, especially with relative ease and low cost of marketing on today's various social media platforms. It first takes the buy-in of the person with the goods / services to make that avenue work. I know of cases firsthand where the founder doesn't have and scoffs at that buy-in, and loses potential business as a result.

[kurz]

About what I know/guess:

The way from MacGregor to the Children/Tatoo was not made the best it can be.

You know this things coming many many years before!

So by better planing or in sweeter relationships I am convinced that you can go on pruducin a boat.

There are completely NO coast for devoloping or tooling.

All the reseller network was ok, an this INTERNATIONAL!!!

All the world knew about the

So my plan was to first settle down with producing the . Maybe on a smaller pocket in the beginning.
When the business gets stabilized go on with new models like 22, or 23 or what you want. But dont loose energy by devlopping new models at same time when you start a business, travel for new town...

I'm shure old Roger would not have done in this way....!!!

[BOAT]

Guys, listen to yourselves:

T

o me in business, you sell it till it doesn't sell anymore.

I know of cases firsthand where the founder doesn't have and scoffs at that buy-in, and loses potential business as a result.

I'm shure old Roger would not have done in this way....!!!

Now, let's listen to what Roger said in his own words:

"I have always admired athletes, businessman and politicians who hang it up when they’re at the top of their game and start doing something new. That’s where we are, and that’s what we are doing now. "
Roger MacGregor
February 2013

This is exactly what Roger wanted to do - he was done.

The real people we should be talking to right now are the Marlow Hunter guys - they HAVE a functioning factory, employees, and molds - yet even with the competition gone they don't seem to care about the trailer market either. Someone should ask THEM why they are not participating - if the market was there I'm sure they would be too.

[sailboatmike]

Basic law of economics

Price increases until supply meets demand, as they dont make our boats anymore and there is still demand your boat isnt depreciating anywhere near what it would if they still built them, so be happy

Many have tried to imitate the power sailor formula and have failed badly for one reason or another, normally because they are over priced poor imitations

Have a look at this second hand Mac imitation, they want $105,000Au, thats around double what you could of bought a brand new M or T26 for here and 2 1/2 times what you can buy a good second hand one for here.

http://www.boatsales.com.au/boats-for-s ... ss=Premium

[bahama bound]

I have a hunter edge and I get offers for it all the time ,I would think hunter would be more approachable about building a trailer sailer than other companies if the Macs are really done ? I think cheap fuel also plays a part ? I gotta say it is nice to have that option of trailering a sailboat .

[K9Kampers]

The real people we should be talking to right now are the Marlow Hunter guys - they HAVE a functioning factory, employees, and molds - yet even with the competition gone they don't seem to care about the trailer market either. Someone should ask THEM why they are not participating - if the market was there I'm sure they would be too.

Why should / would they? They already dipped a toe in that pond with an overpriced product that conflicted with what they already offer. Despite having the resources, their profit margin in that niche market would just be a distraction.

I read an article sometime ago about a boat dealer explaining why they changed their image from selling the everyman (brand X) boats to the upscale (brand Y) boats. They said that it takes the same time/effort/resources to sell both, but that they make more profit on the upscale (brand Y).

It's either gonna take someone with deep pockets or a new business model - or both - to bring something to market to fill that void. Only time will tell.
......

If no news is good news, then Ventura Sport Boats' lack of updates on their website & FB means that they are only weeks away from delivering on their Venture 23. Imagine that... going from a amateur digital image and scale model to delivering a new boat in six months!

[Bilgemaster]

It does appear to have all come to an ignominious end. However, all of our Macs have now become a limited and (sadly) slowly diminishing supply, but this then hopefully will make their market value increase or at least maintain instead of fall. Time will tell.

I concur with your analysis: barring a sudden and unforseen tsunami to our shores of at least "semi-decent" Mac 26X or 26M or Odin or Tattoo even Hunter Edge style power-sailer knockoffs from China, or somewhere else with "noodle wages," I too foresee reasonably well-kept Mac X and M hybrid models holding their values quite well compared to non-hybrid models or other "mere sailboats"...perhaps even getting a very healthy bump indeed. After all, most younger folks nowadays are buying various flavors of stinkpot. They wanna have more than ten ponies on the stern and some idea when they'll be getting where they're going or back home--not just "build character" if the wind dies. Hëll, that's why I "settled" on a Mac X. Whatever craft may present itself in future, after I retire in about a decade or so, for now and the foreseeable future I need a comfy low draft beachable Chesapeake runabout for "gunkholing" and buzzing or sailing around in the gentler salty stuff of the Bay. I ain't casting off for Tahiti this week or year or the next. Frankly, I may never bother with the whole blue water circumwhatever Bigass Voyage sailing thing...or just bareboat charter if I do. Like "Boat" already told you, I think I've found my boat, and now that I've got her pretty well squared away to my taste and needs, am not likely to part with her. Sneerers and salty armchair mariners with bowlines in their pubes who deride the hybrid breed can lick my nice dry bilge.

Look folks: I'm coming at salt water sailing from more than 2 decades as a freshwater-only Amphicar owner, one of those clownish amphibious German boat-car things from the '60s. NO vehicle has been more "bashed" and maligned than the Amphicar, not even the Mac hybrids. "It's not much of a car, not much of a boat." Sound familiar? But guess what? That same Amphicar I got for a couple-thousand bucks in 1994, I could sell over a weekend for well more than 15 times what I paid for her. While it may not be as dramatic a leap, I still foresee a very healthy rise in value for our unique hybrid X's and M's over the next decade or so. After all, they're what folks really WANT, like the Amphicar they have their own undeniable unique virtues, and they don't appear to be making any more of them. Barring the appearance of any suitable substitution on the market or a huge resurrection of the Tattoo line, my hunch is that in a decade or so a choice fun-ready or even near-ready X or M will cost around triple what they run now...maybe more if fuel hikes up again over that 4 buck a gallon mark and folks rediscover that "the wind is free." So give her that extra coat of wax and that extra spritz of Armor All, have fun with her and bide your time. When it does come time to part with her, I am fairly sure you'll be pleasantly surprised at what a great investment she turned out to be.

[1st Sail]

Interesting perspective on the fate of sailing world wide. Google trends does not hold much promise for growth. The one lesson I have learned after running my company for 37yrs...there are few stones left unturned. Companies are spending enormous sums in search of new markets and products. Competition is fierce at all levels of enterprise. Roger ceased operations due to lack of sales. His off spring could not leverage an existing product brand after relocation. The following Youtube video clearly shows the declining market trends.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiiAayqRM8E

[sailboatmike]

For an item like sail boats I wonder how reliable that data is, generally people interested in boats may be older and less lightly to use the internet to do searches, they may use things like Ebay, boat sales or craigslist.

People may look at boat shows, walk around brokers and use word of mouth to find boats that suit them

Not everyone is of the internet age

[Bilgemaster]

This The Sailing Market 2016 State of the Industry • February 2016 report from a broad consortium of sailing organizations is rather interesting to wade through...and just a bit "cheerfully dire." Can you hear that whistling in the dark? Of course, what the report doesn't focus on is the outlook of our demented and schizophrenic little sector: the used "hybrid" power-sailer market. After all, they're not making Macs or Tattoos or even Hunter Edges anymore. Still, it's interesting to watch the slide. From other more general boating industry reports like this one, it would seem that pontoon boat makers are having the easiest time of it.

So, what about the future value of our hybrids? Well, I think some of the results of a Google search for "kite sail for boat" or "putting a sail on a motorboat" speak rather clearer to regular folks' general aspirations. They start toying with the idea of rigging some sort of a sail to a motorboat to save fuel or whatever, and next thing you know they figure out that somebody named Roger had actually gotten around to working out something WAY better than that laundry drying rack lashed to a Harbor Freight tarp on the deck of your old ChrisCraft, and next thing you know they're lurking in the craigslistings and other boat venues..just like I did.

I'm telling you: our hybrids are just weird enough in just the right ways to beat that general malaise in non-luxury sailboat sales, values and long time on market figures (about 300 days average for your average non-Mac, by the way). Just give it a bit of time. If you've got a nice Mac already, the last thing you should want, economically speaking, is for Tattoo to rise up from the crypt.

[BOAT]

For an item like sail boats I wonder how reliable that data is, generally people interested in boats may be older and less lightly to use the internet to do searches, they may use things like Ebay, boat sales or craigslist.

People may look at boat shows, walk around brokers and use word of mouth to find boats that suit them

Not everyone is of the internet age

I guess an honest assessment of us here on the site might also reveal why some of us are perplexed by the data - am I right to assume that almost all of us are over 49 years old? Might that be what's wrong with our perceptions?

[Starscream]

For an item like sail boats I wonder how reliable that data is, generally people interested in boats may be older and less lightly to use the internet to do searches, they may use things like Ebay, boat sales or craigslist.

People may look at boat shows, walk around brokers and use word of mouth to find boats that suit them

Not everyone is of the internet age

I guess an honest assessment of us here on the site might also reveal why some of us are perplexed by the data - am I right to assume that almost all of us are over 49 years old? Might that be what's wrong with our perceptions?

The google data shows search trends, so the people who don't use google search are already factored out of the data. This trend shows that there are fewer people now googling sailing than there were five years ago. And one could argue that as time goes on, older people are becoming more tech savvy and more likely to use google, since they were introduced to it at a younger age. I think this data really does show a decrease in general interest.

Here's the data on the Mac 26X. There is a very recent spike, but one unimpressive magnitude, and the data sadly shows that there has never been a winter with fewer Mac26X searches as this current one. Certainly doesn't bode well for Tattoo. Or for resale values.



And I'm not over 49. It's gonna happen in the 2020's, unless I can figure out some way to hit the "pause" button. But no matter what I do it seems to be speeding up, not slowing down.

[BOAT]

And I'm not over 49. It's gonna happen in the 2020's, unless I can figure out some way to hit the "pause" button. But no matter what I do it seems to be speeding up, not slowing down.

The data on the X boat is very interesting Starscream, is there a chart for the M boat? Is it about the same? I guess less and less people are interested in small sailboats.

[Starscream]

Pretty much the same thing for the M model. Lowest interest level ever.