Finally took delivery last night of our 04 M

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Paul S
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Post by Paul S »

mike wrote:Paul,

With the mast wiring channel both being explicitly spelled out in the contract, and advertised as a feature on MacGregor's website, I can't imagine them not making good on that... they can probably include a replacement mast with the next shipment to this particular dealer, and swap it out for you.

I still can't believe they foamed the whole mast like that!

--Mike
I wonder if ANY M owner has had a channel in their mast? Anyone? My boat was built in Jan 04. it is been almost a year of Mac building the M's. You would think that they would have started installing this feature.

The plan is to get a HOLLOW mast from Macgregor and install a channel, then fill the mast with foam ("great stuff" cans from Home depot, etc) around the holes.

IF he can get it.. is another story..

Paul
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Post by Paul S »

Steve K wrote:No...... if it was release wax, it wouldn't be all over the ballast valve.
I smell a dead fish here.

The gelcoat problems can be solved, but that crack really bugs me. Where, exactly, is it. It looks superficial (not structural). But still, to crack the gelcoat that way, this boat has taken a pretty good blow in that part of the hull, or it is a natural stress point in the design.

I helped a dealer show one of these M boats, early last year(as in boat show). I think it was actually hull #2, but not positive. I have to say, this boat was very nice, both in fit and finish. I've seen both X and M boats lined up in MacGregor's parking lot. I always look these boats over, when I'm there and in general, production quality has looked pretty good.
I've never seen a new boat with the wax residue all over it, like that and I've seen a couple Mac hulls right after they were popped out of the mold. Perhaps they were buffed out before I saw them, but I'm talking bare hulls on the production line. They both looked beautiful. I could have used them for a shaving mirror. :wink:

I would have bought your boat, but I would have either made sure I got a deep discount, or made sure the dealer would fix the problems. This must be in writing, of course. (and perhaps you've done this, if so great, but if not, don't worry too much)

I would say (and this is pure speculation) that the problems with your boat were caused, either in shipping or by a lot boy who isn't very good at moving a trailer around the dealer's lot (bump, ding, oops). I think an attempt to buff the entire boat has been made (and I say attempt, because whoever did it had no idea what they were doing). This is evident by the swirl marks you mention. I don't think they regularly do this at the factory, but not sure. However, a buff job at the factory would be done by a detail man, who knows what he's doing, ergo no swirl marks. Why was the boat, being brand new, buffed out? Well, one reason I can think of is that a nearby building was painted, while the boat was sitting outside. Overspray from careless painters settled on the boat and had to be removed. (see any specks of paint anywhere? is that wax residue in the nonskid areas of the boat, or overspray?)

If you get to the point where you are actually repairing these problems yourself, do read my article on gelcoat repair in the featured articles section. Also feel free to e-mail me directly. I can give you some tips on the proper equipment and methods for buffing gelcoat and cleaning that wax residue out of the non-skid areas. A big mistake I've seen, even dealers make it to try to buff out a boat while it's sitting out in the sun. You'll get swirl marks every time.

Anyway.... this and more...... let me know if you need some help.
SK
MacX#1374
There are several cracks in the gelcoat. on the same location on both sides of the boat. right by the stay adjusters.

I have owned a blue boat for since 92. The gelcoat was mirror like when new and virtually mirror like now. I know how to take care of it.

Whoever detailed (I use this term very loosely) our boat didn't have a clue or was drunk. :) All I know is the surface is not glass smooth that I would expect. Rough feeling..not quite like sandpaper..but doesn't feel right either. There is more to the story I am sure (dealer/shipper/factory damage)

The dealer promises to make good on everything as well as he can in April. No idea what is going to happen with the mast-o-foam. Just hope they will get him a hollow mast or one with a channel. Or he will have to install a channel himself.

Paul
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dclark
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Post by dclark »

It's hard to tell from the pictures, but I'll take you word for it...the dealer and the factory need to make good on a few monir details.

Are there any other problems with the boat? And what did the dealer say when you called and informed him of the problems?
Paul S
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Post by Paul S »

dclark wrote:It's hard to tell from the pictures, but I'll take you word for it...the dealer and the factory need to make good on a few monir details.

Are there any other problems with the boat? And what did the dealer say when you called and informed him of the problems?
Yea..but some 'minor' details could be many many hours of labor. if they can't get a mast..probably a good 4 hours chipping away at the solid foam from both ends. Several hours waxing and de-waxing what should not be waxed. Installing fairleads/cleat for roller. Install whatever little things are in those boxes.

This is above and beyond the promised orientation in april/may.

He said that everything will be completed to my satisfaction and make it up to us.

Macgregor really should be ashamed at the trailer though. Damn. The number of rust spots already. I am at the point where I want to strip the trailer of all parts..have it sanblasted to bare steel and coat it with POR15 (rustproof coating). They really should offer a better (galvanized) trailer (add an additional price) for those who want it.

Paul
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Steve K
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Post by Steve K »

Paul,
Based on your description of the finish on the hull, I'm leaning toward some kind of overspray has settled on it at some point. In my experience with fiberglass, I wouldn't know of a situation where a piece could come out of the mold with such a rough finish (but I don't know everything).

Perhaps the hull should be completely color sanded? (wet sanded with very fine paper like #1500 to #2000) and then re-polished.


Anyway, hope you get it all ironed out.
SK
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Steve K
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Post by Steve K »

Oh Paul,
I ment to say also..........

I got a view from the ground, of the underside of my trailer, not long ago when touching up the wax on my 1997 X hull. It was almost funny (but not quite), that the very bottom of the frame was covered in light rust. There is just a very light dusting of paint on this part of the trailer. So I gotta agree with you on that. (cheap finishing of trailer)
I was planning on sand blasting it and re-painting it white (easier to see under the water at the launch ramp), next year. But I may do it much sooner now.
SK
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Tom Root
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Post by Tom Root »

Steve, if you are thinking of redoing your trailer in white, a possability, even though a bit more expensive may be that polymer coating used in pick-up beds. I was watching a fishing show (well sort of...just background noise) and my ear caught the fact that the manufacturer used steel trailers with Rhino-liner as the topcoat. That sounded interesting, and pretty durable. I redid my other Macs trailor a few years back, but it was a bit pricey for that particular boat, but this one.....possibly. You can also get it in most colors also!
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Steve K
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Post by Steve K »

Good idea Tom, I'll do some checking on that. That would be particularly great on the fenders.

I used good ole rustoleum on my C-22 trailer (including primer). It lasted very well. I put on two double coats of primer and about four coats of gloss white (didn't use a whole gallon). The trailer looked great. After a good waxing (about 6 weeks later) it looked even better.
SK
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orange peel

Post by Ralf »

Paul

your gelcoat surface ruoughness wouldn't remind you of "orange peel" - or?
Just read a bit through this
http://www.bertram31.com/proj/tips/re-gelcoating.htm
and was wondering if you might be looking at a badly done re-coating job.
I certainly hope not, because if one of course would not only have to wonder why it was badly done, but also why it was necessary to do in the first place.
Steve Smith
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My Mac buying experience

Post by Steve Smith »

Paul - best of luck in getting those issues ironed out - I hope you have a great season in 2004 and can put this experience behind you.

Im in Boston on business a lot - email me (below) if you're interested in getting together to talk shop.

I bought Catigale new from Art Reiders at Havencraft in 2002 -probably one of the last Macs before he retired. I know he is out there having a great time with his grandkids somewhere because he patiently took me through buying my first boat, then delivered a boat in top notch condition with everything in place and (according to my sailing buddies on Lake Ontario) "great workmanship"

Thanks again Art and Bernice if you're lurking!

Stephen

abscate (at) nycap.rr.com
Paul S
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Re: orange peel

Post by Paul S »

Ralf wrote:Paul

your gelcoat surface ruoughness wouldn't remind you of "orange peel" - or?
Just read a bit through this
http://www.bertram31.com/proj/tips/re-gelcoating.htm
and was wondering if you might be looking at a badly done re-coating job.
I certainly hope not, because if one of course would not only have to wonder why it was badly done, but also why it was necessary to do in the first place.
Don't think so. Considering the job they did on the bow patch, they wouldn't paint the entire boat, make flawless tape marks, then put swirl marks and scratches on it. then do a crappy repair job again...

Just SOP at the Mac shop I guess.

Paul
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Re: My Mac buying experience

Post by Paul S »

Steve Smith wrote:Paul - best of luck in getting those issues ironed out - I hope you have a great season in 2004 and can put this experience behind you.

Im in Boston on business a lot - email me (below) if you're interested in getting together to talk shop.

I bought Catigale new from Art Reiders at Havencraft in 2002 -probably one of the last Macs before he retired. I know he is out there having a great time with his grandkids somewhere because he patiently took me through buying my first boat, then delivered a boat in top notch condition with everything in place and (according to my sailing buddies on Lake Ontario) "great workmanship"

Thanks again Art and Bernice if you're lurking!

Stephen

abscate (at) nycap.rr.com
It will be fine I am sure. Just have to live with the gelcoat flaws I guess. I'll do what I can to minimize the appearance of them. As long as the dealer can come through with the channel in the mast, roller hardware and other parts that need installation....and a good orientation of how the stuff works on the boat...it will be OK.

Kills me to give in though. But I do not belive a better hull can be built and delivered by Macgregor that is up to my standard.

send me an email off list when you will be in the area.

Paul
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Post by Paul S »

MZ wrote:There have been a couple of people that have run wires through the foam coared M masts and have very discripive procedures in the arcives from the old site,mabe they'll chime in and give you some pointers.
My procedure:

1) Call dealer
2) schedule appt for him to do it
3) done

I have read the procedure that owners that have DIY. No thanks. Thank goodness I saw those before we got the boat...so I could work it into the contract. I mean...how dare me to actually insist Macgregor install something that is promoted in their literature. :)

Paul
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dclark
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Post by dclark »

I'll repeat what I said earlier but in a different way...

I at some point you will realize that MacGregor makes a sort of "bare bones" boat. It's more of a no frills and we won't charge you for it. They basically make a hull that retails for somewhere around $18k. For the most part everything you may have paid om top of that went in someone elses pocket.

Macs seem to best suit people who are willing to take a little less then "prefect" and save the money. They seem best suited to people who would rather save a few bucks doing it themselves or accepting the Macs shortcomings.

I'm by no means saying that if there is damage to the boat or something ordered that was not delivered, etc., then they should definetly take care of that pronto.
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Post by Paul S »

dclark wrote:I'll repeat what I said earlier but in a different way...

I at some point you will realize that MacGregor makes a sort of "bare bones" boat. It's more of a no frills and we won't charge you for it. They basically make a hull that retails for somewhere around $18k. For the most part everything you may have paid om top of that went in someone elses pocket.

Macs seem to best suit people who are willing to take a little less then "prefect" and save the money. They seem best suited to people who would rather save a few bucks doing it themselves or accepting the Macs shortcomings.

I'm by no means saying that if there is damage to the boat or something ordered that was not delivered, etc., then they should definetly take care of that pronto.
I'm learning that the hard way. Still not the way to do business, IMO. It doesn't cost a lot more make a product correctly. They should make a point of that in the brochures to let people know to expect it will come in pre-damaged in some form (scratches, chips, etc) - make it a selling point - takes the stress off getting the first ding.

The fact that people stand for this standard of quality does blow my mind though.

I can deal with bare bones..just didn't know there would be a facture or 2 in those bones.

Paul
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