Flipping a Macgregor

[FishyFabs]

Boat, thanks for a detailed reply.

[Curwen]

...this thread is growing as fast as the weeds in my garden...

]I hate to add to the urban legend stuff, so here is the conversation as it happened...My brother and I were sailing on the return leg side-by-side on Saturday when he pops out with....

"I've always been impressed with the Macs. Two years ago we were at the Utah Lake Regatta , the first part of the race there wasn't much wind, but about halfway through the first leg of the long race a front came in and the wind kicked up. He said this Mac 26 kept up with his Cat 27 until the first turn and on that first turn they they were turning when a strong gust came and flattened the Mac."

Now he was only three beers into his sail, so I tend to believe him. I do know a couple of other sailors who could have been at that regatta so I will have to confirm it with one of them.

And if the water level is like it is now, there is a great chance he wasn't sailing with dagger or swing all the way down because Utah lake is a very shallow lake and would be running the risk of smacking the keel on the bottom.


Lot's of problems with this post:
The boat heels LESS with less daggerboad - not more. If the boat gets a gust with no board down is skids sideways more and heels less.
You can't knock the M boat down with wind alone - it's impossible - and since it was a lake we know there were no swells or waves so it sounds like the story is crap.
If it were an X boat it may have been a boat with no ballast in it coming about - but even the X boat with no permanent ballast will recover.
It all sounds pretty shaky to me.

Ok...spoke with my brother on what he saw...The Mac was heeling about 45 degrees, wind gust came on and the Mac let the Main out and bounced the end of the boom off the water. Looks like there was a definition issue with the story as related.

I'm not comfortable enough with my boat yet to sail that close to an edge yet. The Admiral has some mobility issues, so I typically sail on nice and gentle days. Still need to find a good reference on how to reef my sail so I can stay out a little longer.

And is there a Smiley for the 26C?

Thanks,

Curwen

[sailboatmike]

Geee Is the boom touching the water while its let out is the new definition of "flipping" ??

Thats not even a knock down!!

This is the problem with mythology, it grows it own wings, he will tell someone that he saw a Mac get flipped when in actuality it was heeled maybe 60 degrees and the word will get around via chinese whispers and by the time it goes through 4 people and 4 sailing forums the story will be that it was rolled turtle (180 degrees) and 2 people drowned and 2 others had to be saved and the boat sank.

There are plenty of people out in the sailing community with lots of egg on their faces because 20 years ago they predicted that Macs were unsafe and would roll over in anything but a light breeze killing 100's of people that have been proved to be 100% wrong, so they just love to exaggerate any story about a Mac to try and get some credibility back and prove they were right all along.

Going by your brothers definition of flipping Highlander must spend 1/2 his sailing life with the boat flipped, he seems to spend a bucket of time with the windows in the water, not sure if he likes sailing that way or he is too cheap to pay for someone to wash his windows

[BOAT]

Rounding up...

This makes me more aware of the fact that the X and the M do not sail the same - this could be some of the confusion.

I was not keenly aware of this when I finally was able to shop for a MAC to buy. For 12 years all I wanted was the X boat and it's the only MAC I knew about. I liked the interior, and weight. After 12 years of planning for a MAC and finally being able to get one I was in shock when I got to the boat show to find the boat interior was all different - in fact I was most disappointed. I could not understand why Roger "messed up" the X boat! Now there was a silly DB trunk taking up space in the cabin and "where's the head!!?" I was so upset I decided to not get a boat!

Finally Mike Inmon started to explain to me the reasons that Roger did what he did. Mike bragged on and on about how the boat sailed. At the time I did not care, but I decided to reconsider and I slowly came around to the changes made. I don't have any experience with the X boat but based on the differences in the posts here between the X boat owners and the M boat owners there seems to be a trend about what it means to sail on the side of the boat and it's not the same for the X as for the M.

This is very interesting.

[Highlander]

To wash the windows first u start to bury the bow
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 4942-5.jpg

Once that,s accomplished ! the windows r getting washed
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 4942-2.jpg

U next bury the bowsprit this allows u to add lots more ballast by using ur genny to scoop lots of water into her belly
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 4942-1.jpg

now raise the bow as high as poss. dumping genny ballast this now rinses off the washed windows
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 0_2494.jpg

keep raising the bow as high as poss so as to be able to air dry the windows
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 4942-4.jpg

Once that's accomplished u start on the port side windows
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 11-3-1.jpg

J

[sailboatmike]

To wash the windows first u start to bury the bow
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 4942-5.jpg

Once that,s accomplished ! the windows r getting washed
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 4942-2.jpg

U next bury the bowsprit this allows u to add lots more ballast by using ur genny to scoop lots of water into her belly
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 4942-1.jpg

now raise the bow as high as poss. dumping genny ballast this now rinses off the washed windows
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 0_2494.jpg

keep raising the bow as high as poss so as to be able to air dry the windows
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 4942-4.jpg

Once that's accomplished u start on the port side windows
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 11-3-1.jpg

J

Maybe your missing a chance to sell advertising space on the bottom of the boat, a very large area that is often exposed to the audience, a sponsors dream

[DaveC426913]

Maybe your missing a chance to sell advertising space on the bottom of the boat

That's our If-your-centreboard-is-wet-you're-not-trying-hard-enough Highander!

[BOAT]

I can tell you guys from much experience that the M boat sails really well on it's side - very stable and rock solid - it hits a wall at a certain angle.

[Signaleer]

Rounding up...

This makes me more aware of the fact that the X and the M do not sail the same - this could be some of the confusion.

There's no confusion, except for the sailing terms you use and the way you describe sailing characteristics.

I've never said anything about an M (nor anyone else here as far as I know)... But you seem hull bent on describing an X even though you admittedly have never been on one. Its like I am on sailing anarchy... but I digress.

Is what you are saying.. (dramatic pause)... Are you literally trying to state that the 26M is the only boat in the world that can't be knocked down and doesn't round up? And by the way, rounding up has a definition, and it is not what you are stating.

[Goldenist]

Oh man.. I will take the 100th post and thank everyone for this incredibly fascinating conversation! Lol

[Ixneigh]

Beh. photo-bucket sure bites these days. There's more ads then photos. Nice pictures highlander. Your headsails solve the rounding up issue. The term to me means when the boat heads up into the wind no matter what the helmsman tries. Usually the result of too much sail, incorrect sail trim, or occasionally catching a wave wrong when running. (A brooch in extreme cases) also a fair way to invert most watercraft if the wave is large enough.
I suggest a device whereby an inflatable ball at the top of the mast will deploy with a Mercury switch set to 90 degrees heel. You'll need to disarm the device before lowering the mast.

[Highlander]

U know how to tell when u have a good heel going on is when ur heels get wet !!
http://vid844.photobucket.com/albums/ab ... 010093.mp4

J

[Baha]

Love this discussion!

Opens gas can.

So, then, what's the difference between rounding up and a "Chinese jibe"????

Throws gas can on fire and walks away....

[sailboatmike]

Rounding up would normally happen while reaching or beating to windward while gybing would be downwind, of course to gybe your boom has to cross the centerline of the boat, roundup the boom stays on the same side and the bow gets pushed to windward, its like weather helm on steroids

[Curwen]

Well....to keep from flipping.....I think it might be a good idea to reef early and often?

I intend to practice reefing. I haven't tried it yet, but was thinking if Velcro straps with d rings would work to secure the reef points to the boom. I did a quick search and found there are a few products available for this purpose. Would like to know if anybody is using these.

Thanks,

Curwen