autopilot - wheel drive versus tiller drive

[kadet]

Yeah, we know about yours and John's and Matt's - you guys all have that "bagel" one. So far that one has the best reviews on this site for accuracy. I'm still waiting for reports on some of the more recent "tiller" type installs. I'm curious if there is a difference in the performance.

Boat what do you mean by accurate? They are both accurate at steering a course that is the software not the mechanism used to manipulate the rudders. The tiller pilot can produce 80kg of thrust more than enough for our lightweight boats. As I said in a previous post I made a course adjustment in my plotter when in trace mode under motor and made a very quick sharp turn, way faster than I would have made

[BOAT]

When underway I cannot hear the tiller drive at all. Moored I can hear a whirring sound but this was for testing the AP initially and of course the AP is off normally when not underway. I would not bother with sound proofing for the tiller pilot but each to his/her own.

Really! That's good to hear! Others had told me the pilots were really noisy.

So how does your tiller pilot perform? Are you real happy with how it works? Is it accurate? Do you feel it's putting any stress on the steering system?

I'm not sure but I think we have four boats out there using the tiller pilot under the cockpit, and four boats using the wheel pilot above the cockpit.

Does that sound about right? We have about eight boats on AP's at this time?

[mastreb]

One thing to know about all autopilots, the more course drift you allow (in software config) the less power they use. They can be "spot on" but the actuator is very "nervous", running all the time. On the EV-1, allowing a 3 degree course drift vs. requiring maximum course correction is about double the amp-draw.

[BOAT]

Yeah, we know about yours and John's and Matt's - you guys all have that "bagel" one. So far that one has the best reviews on this site for accuracy. I'm still waiting for reports on some of the more recent "tiller" type installs. I'm curious if there is a difference in the performance.

Boat what do you mean by accurate? They are both accurate at steering a course that is the software not the mechanism used to manipulate the rudders. The tiller pilot can produce 80kg of thrust more than enough for our lightweight boats. As I said in a previous post I made a course adjustment in my plotter when in trace mode under motor and made a very quick sharp turn, way faster than I would have made

Okay, that's even more good news. So far I am getting a pretty good picture that the tiller pilot works pretty good even with the rather short tiller arm that we have on out boats. No one yet to date has posted a single complaint that I can recall. I just wanted to be careful about doing the installation correctly. I was just worried about that tie bar - it just seemed a little bit flexible to me.

[BOAT]

One thing to know about all autopilots, the more course drift you allow (in software config) the less power they use. They can be "spot on" but the actuator is very "nervous", running all the time. On the EV-1, allowing a 3 degree course drift vs. requiring maximum course correction is about double the amp-draw.

Another thing I was wondering as I was throwing the rudders around from under the cockpit Matt -

Would I save electricity with a longer swing arm on the rudder so the ram does not need as much force to turn?

OR

Would I save electricity by having a SHORT swing arm so the ram does not need to TRAVEL so far to turn????

Which do you think would be more efficient on power consumption?? Longer travel less force, more force less travel??

[RobertB]

Boat

STOP THINKING THIS OUT SO MUCH

My brain is starting to hurt

[BOAT]

That's why I got Prozac - I told you guys I was really anal when I make something.

I have just a little bit more research to do on creating the "unlatching" mechanism and then I should be ready to proceed.

Thanks for the help!!!

[mastreb]

With a linear drive, there's very little difference between the torque/speed curve power usage. Generally they're very flat. Your best bet is to get the linear drive that matches the required throw the best, so you have the lowest mechanical linkage loss. That drive will be optimized for direct-drive of its throw length (and will take the least possible amount of room).

[BOAT]

With a linear drive, there's very little difference between the torque/speed curve power usage. Generally they're very flat. Your best bet is to get the linear drive that matches the required throw the best, so you have the lowest mechanical linkage loss. That drive will be optimized for direct-drive of its throw length (and will take the least possible amount of room).

My understanding of this install is that there are only two drives - one for boats under 3500 and one for boats under 5500.

Hey Kadet, Luna! How did you guys size your "ram" thing?

[RobertB]

The EV-1 has only one linear drive. If you spend alot more $$$ and get a higher end system, there are other drives available. I checked the travel/throw of the drive against the travel of the rudder linkage. All looked good to me and was judged by RayMarine tech support as fine.

[kadet]

Our boats are light you are again over thinking boat.

The current tiller actuator for the Ev-100 has the below specs, I think it will be fine for a .

Specifications:

Power Supply: 12V Systems
Recommended Maximum Displacement: 6000kg (13,200 lbs)
Absolute Voltage Range: 10 - 16V DC
Thrust: 84kg (185lbs)
Stroke: 254mm (10in)

Either will work well, either will be as accurate as you set them up..

Work out how you are going to use it and the install time trouble you want to go to. Wheel harder install but can be disengaged, if you have steering slack in the helm it will hunt all the time to keep course. Tiller easy install not as much hunting but it is always connected unless you go below and pop it off the bar.

One thing I liked about the TP is it stiffened up my steering and made controlling the boat at high speed under power easier even without using the AP. But it is stiff and can fell strange till you get use to it. I almost always steer by AP so the ability to not disengage it is no problem. Also the load on the tiller bar is a compression load if you bend that bar with the TP you have done something wrong

[tehtairing]

Hi Kadet,

I installed the TP as well but yet to sea test the AP. Is there any ware and tare on the TP that you might feel to date? I like the slightly resistance feel but willing to go down to pop the TP if needed. We had some lively conversations on the Macgregor 26 Owners group on Face Book on wheel drive vs tiller drive as well. If any one would like care to join, the group is open to public. A lot of conversation there refered back to here as well.

TEH

[kadet]

As I only hand steer in and out of the boat ramp hard to tell

[BOAT]

I HAVE A QUESTION! is the AP safe in sail mode AT 20 MILES PER HOUR? (does it work ok at that speed?)

For all you guys that have the autopilot (I think most of you are on this post) about the operation of the autopilot when under power.

When we set up the pilots they ask us if we are in SAIL mode or POWER mode, and I set mine up in SAIL mode.

# Question, does that mean I can't use the pilot under power because I have it in SAIL MODE?

I have not had the guts yet to try out the auto pilot at WOT because I am afraid it will get all freeked out at 20 miles per hour because it's set at SAIL MODE and turn too fast or something.

# Question, do you guys reset the AP to POWER MODE when you go fast on the motor or can you do that in SAIL MODE? (SO far I have not had the guts to try that )

[kadet]

Just don't set it to steer to wind angle and it's fine Will follow a compass bearing all day.

Mind I never go over about 14knots under AP