Sizable wave by stern

[BOAT]

It is said (and documented) that a boat on a sea anchor deployed from the bow will shear (wander) much worse than at anchor. Considering the amount of shearing these boats experience on the hook I can't imagine what they'd do one bow deployed sea anchor in a blow. I've been reading more into drogues and sea anchors and all signs point to a series drogue. The more I read into it the more I've been convinced that the stern is the way to go.

Trust me, in 20 foot breaking sea you do not want your stern into the waves. Shear effect is created when a boat is on a fixed anchor and the boat 'dances' back and forth in the wind like a flag fluttering back and forth on a flagpole. Eliminate the flagpole and the flag will just fly with the wind. A sea anchor is not attached to the ground - it moves quite easily so when the boat pulls on it the anchor moves. You control shear by properly sizing the sea anchor and by increasing the length of the line, not by putting your stern into the waves and getting swamped.

Stern anchors work very well on the MAC M boat - I have have great luck with them if you use a bridle, but only in bad chop and nothing over 6 feet. On really big stuff you must steer the boat or tie off the bow.

You are very correct about doubting one anchor - in a very bad storm with no one at the helm multiple sea anchors or baggers were what I saw used by the guys I sailed with - they had several buckets on one line. Ultimately, the sea anchor does not save your boat - it only makes things more comfortable, If the boat is not sea worthy in heavy storms no sea anchor will save it. I have weathered bad things in similar sized sailboats with experienced skippers but have yet to test a MAC in 30 foot sea. We just lot a boat this morning off San Clemente Island here in San Diego because of high seas. Usually boats get swamped. If you can keep your MAC from getting swamped (and I think you can) then you will survive.

[yukonbob]

Trust me, in 20 foot breaking sea you do not want your stern into the waves. Shear effect is created when a boat is on a fixed anchor and the boat 'dances' back and forth in the wind like a flag fluttering back and forth on a flagpole. Eliminate the flagpole and the flag will just fly with the wind. A sea anchor is not attached to the ground - it moves quite easily so when the boat pulls on it the anchor moves. You control shear by properly sizing the sea anchor and by increasing the length of the line, not by putting your stern into the waves and getting swamped.
Stern anchors work very well on the MAC M boat - I have have great luck with them if you use a bridle, but only in bad chop and nothing over 6 feet. On really big stuff you must steer the boat or tie off the bow.

Mixing up Sea anchors and drogues here. Sea anchors are large (6’ diameter recommended for our boats at 4000lbs but go up to 40’ dia.) does not move much in the water and require a minimum of 300’ of rode plus a weight and retrieval line. Shearing, yaw, wandering, hunting is heightened due to the long rode required and the increased wind presumably from a gale or storm (although a sea anchor can be used to slow a vessel in distress from a lee shore and buy time for repairs or help to arrive). These are to be deployed from the bow and is highly recommended with almost all boats (except cats) to help reduce wandering to rig bow/stern bridal with a snatch block. This also helps reduce backing down on the rudders leading to possible damage to the rudders or the engine.
What you’re referring to are drogues and do reduce speed and allow water to pass through at a controlled rate. Bigger the size the slower you go. Series drogues are designed similar to sea anchors and are intended to almost stop but allow a controlled downwind drift. Below are some good sites with good information.
http://seriesdrogue.com/
http://www.sea-anchors.com/goodoldboat.htm
http://www.yachtingworld.com/yachts-and ... chor-67260

[kadet]

I have always like these though I have never used one. Seem to have all the benefits of a series drogue but none of the retrieval hassles.

http://www.burkemarine.com.au/pages/seabrake

[yukonbob]

Looks good. I've got a 2 or 3 ft dia. drogue that I keep just in case but have not deployed since I purchased it although I have been meaning to; the weather just seemed to cooperate the last few years or it hasn't and I've been stuck heading dead into the wind. I think for Mac's there's really no reason to have a sea anchor or a series drogue on board to begin with.

[Wind Chime]

I think for Mac's there's really no reason to have a sea anchor or a series drogue on board to begin with.

Sorry Yukonbob, but I gotta disagree with you on this one.

I think having a sea anchor on board is a good safety deice, especially with it being so small and light. Our sea anchor is maybe 2 feet long by about 6 inches in diameter when stowed, and about 4 feet in diameter when deployed on its 50 foot of floating line and bridle.

I have used our sea anchor on 2 occasions, my best example was when I had battery/power issues shortly after leaving an anchorage into open water with large breaking waves and 20-ish winds and a lee shore. I really wanted my power back to use chart plotter for depth and VHF for the 4 hour trip ahead of me. I could have tried to sail back into the cove but if you know the BC coasts Gulf Islands it is hard rock reef infested and lots of sea monsters.

I tried going below to sort out the problem first, but the pitch in that sea made it almost impossible to do any electrical wire testing. So I deployed the sea anchor off the bow through the forward hatch and the boat calmed down almost immediately as the bow turned into the wind and waves, although the boat hobby horsed I was able to find the issue.

I was by myself, so the anchor slowed the boats drift as well which allowed me more time below deck not having to constantly check that I was not getting blown onto the rocks. Sailing to open water and heaving-too was also an option I was considering.

Small investment, small and light item if you do more than day sail.

[BOAT]

Looks good. I've got a 2 or 3 ft dia. drogue that I keep just in case but have not deployed since I purchased it although I have been meaning to; the weather just seemed to cooperate the last few years or it hasn't and I've been stuck heading dead into the wind. I think for Mac's there's really no reason to have a sea anchor or a series drogue on board to begin with.

Yes, that is the key thing that on a MAC you really would not have the big multi bucket deals unless your on a fairly large boat - the parachutes I have seen before but have never used one but I have seen other use them. I don't think you would ever use a parachute on a MAC. The one that I saw most was like a canvas bag with slots or holes or flaps in it - the canvas "bag" is usually about 4 or 5 feet long with a three foot round opening - most of the ones I saw just looked like a canvas collapsible bucket with little 6 inch half circle holes in the sides and flaps on them. The one I have is just like that and it's an old one leftover from my dad's boat. The deal is that I hope to never really need to use it. The most use we got from the "bag" was as anchor - my dad would toss it over the side and tie it to a side stanchion and it would reduce roll by about 30 to 40% (a big deal when my mom and sister were on board). The nice "SeaAchor" one that is in the link above looks like it works the same way and also looks superior to the old fashioned one I have.

We always treated the "drogue anchor" like a disposable item, if retrieving it was too dangerous or uncomfortable you cut it off and let it go.

Thank goodness most of the use the bag got was helping to reduce roll at anchor.

Over here, sailing past 100 miles from shore will require negotiating some very large swells some of the time, not all of the time. I think the guys in the Atlantic have it way worse than us over here.

[BOAT]

I could have tried to sail back into the cove but if you know the BC coasts Gulf Islands it is hard rock reef infested and lots of sea monsters.

Oh yeah, not just the Atlantic guys but folks in Canada too - I forgot about them. They get ruff stuff too -

Are you using a bag? I assume your talking about a regular soft Drogue bag, right? Your not using any series anchors or parachutes on a MAC? (I would find that very surprising).

[yukonbob]

I think for Mac's there's really no reason to have a sea anchor or a series drogue on board to begin with.

Sorry Yukonbob, but I gotta disagree with you on this one.

I think having a sea anchor on board is a good safety deice, especially with it being so small and light. Our sea anchor is maybe 2 feet long by about 6 inches in diameter when stowed, and about 4 feet in diameter when deployed on its 50 foot of floating line and bridle.

I have used our sea anchor on 2 occasions, my best example was when I had battery/power issues shortly after leaving an anchorage into open water with large breaking waves and 20-ish winds and a lee shore. I really wanted my power back to use chart plotter for depth and VHF for the 4 hour trip ahead of me. I could have tried to sail back into the cove but if you know the BC coasts Gulf Islands it is hard rock reef infested and lots of sea monsters.

I tried going below to sort out the problem first, but the pitch in that sea made it almost impossible to do any electrical wire testing. So I deployed the sea anchor off the bow through the forward hatch and the boat calmed down almost immediately as the bow turned into the wind and waves, although the boat hobby horsed I was able to find the issue.

I was by myself, so the anchor slowed the boats drift as well which allowed me more time below deck not having to constantly check that I was not getting blown onto the rocks. Sailing to open water and heaving-too was also an option I was considering.

Small investment, small and light item if you do more than day sail.

That would be a drogue. Some manufactures call them 'Sea anchors' but they are not. the parachute Boat is referring to is a sea anchor. And yes very familiar with BC coast having spent several years in Rupert as well the SE Alaskan coast is similar just a lot rougher

[Wind Chime]

I could have tried to sail back into the cove but if you know the BC coasts Gulf Islands it is hard rock reef infested and lots of sea monsters.

Are you using a bag? I assume your talking about a regular soft Drogue bag, right? Your not using any series anchors or parachutes on a MAC? (I would find that very surprising).

Hey BOAT and Bob,
We are using a small parachute shape sea anchor, sometimes called a drift sock.
Looks kinda like this.

[yukonbob]

Drogue, looks like the one I've got as well just mine is orange. I've also got four feet of 3/8 chain(some spare i had) attached to it to keep it under water. Take a look at the link I posted above. It was good reading.

Sea Anchor:
http://www.seaanchor.com/assets/photos/seaanchor.jpg

[BOAT]

I could have tried to sail back into the cove but if you know the BC coasts Gulf Islands it is hard rock reef infested and lots of sea monsters.

Are you using a bag? I assume your talking about a regular soft Drogue bag, right? Your not using any series anchors or parachutes on a MAC? (I would find that very surprising).

Hey BOAT,
We are using a small parachute shape sea anchor, sometimes called a drift sock.
Looks kinda like this.

Yeah, okay, if the opening on those yellow bags are only 3 or 4 feet across then I see the confusion now. That's what I use too (only an old fashioned version) but that is the thing you want to have on board. They are light, small, easy to stow, and DISPOSABLE! Never risk your life to retrieve a "drogue" if it's causing trouble just cut it off. You carry two of them - that is drastic, but not a bad idea.

I do not call that a parachute. There really are big parachute sea anchors out there - they have been around forever and they are very hard to use - they are for really big boats only, not a MAC.

I guess the correct term is "sea anchor"?? I don't know - we always used the little ones like in the picture above and we just called them "bags" or "buckets".

So does anyone know what the correct terms are??

[yukonbob]

Size matters. Sea anchor is what it is, it is to anchor you at sea where a ground anchor isn't feasible. A drogue is pretty much anything other than a warp designed to slow and give more control. They used to take off one of the booms off and tie a bunch of junk to it and throw it over the stern in heavy weather in the ‘old’ days. A warp is just a long line either tailed out back or secured to each side of the stern to create drag, but have little to no effect compared to the above mentioned.
Drogues are towed fairly close to the stern while sea anchors should be let out enough to crest the next wave or two (hence the 300’ of rode) so it does not drag the boat down into the trough cause surfing, slackening or backing down. A series drogue is just that, a series of smaller drogues strung out form the stern varying lengths depending on the size of the boat.

[C Buchs]

I guess the correct term is "sea anchor"?? I don't know - we always used the little ones like in the picture above and we just called them "bags" or "buckets".

So does anyone know what the correct terms are??

I've always heard them called sea anchors. We use them to slow us down when we are trolling too fast and to keep straight when fishing at anchor. When the salmon are running we stack the boats right up next to eachother and if you don't have these, the wind will swing you into the guy next to you. I plan to fish out of the next year and I'll need some with all the windage we've got!

Jeff

[mastreb]

You can make a series drogue in an emergency from your rode and heavy clothes like jeans or sweaters. Detach the anchor, tie overhand knots in the anchor every three feet or so along its entire length. Into each overhand not, pass an article of clothing through and knot it as well as you can. Try to balance the article side-to-side on the rode so it's not on one side preferentially. Prefer clothes that wet to saturation like wool and denim rather than synthetics.

Deploy the entire thing off the stern with the chain furthest out, which will help to keep the drogue down in the water. Voila, series drogue. It'll create more than enough drag to keep you stern-to waves.

When the storm relents, you can retrieve (most) of your clothes.

[BOAT]

Size matters. Sea anchor is what it is, it is to anchor you at sea where a ground anchor isn't feasible. A drogue is pretty much anything other than a warp designed to slow and give more control. They used to take off one of the booms off and tie a bunch of junk to it and throw it over the stern in heavy weather in the ‘old’ days. A warp is just a long line either tailed out back or secured to each side of the stern to create drag, but have little to no effect compared to the above mentioned.
Drogues are towed fairly close to the stern while sea anchors should be let out enough to crest the next wave or two (hence the 300’ of rode) so it does not drag the boat down into the trough cause surfing, slackening or backing down. A series drogue is just that, a series of smaller drogues strung out form the stern varying lengths depending on the size of the boat.

Yeah, that's what I thought - I always thought the little three foot bags and buckets we threw over the side were called drogues. I never really heard the term "sea anchor" but I know it's a real thing - I'm just not up to date on all the latest stuff. I know what a "para-anchor" is and I would never recommend one.

The best thing (in my opinion) is a thick soft canvas or fabric bag or bucket designed to create a lot of drag in one direction. These things are great off the stern for motoring (or even sailing) in a following sea if the swells are breaking because it will keep the nose pointed forward when you surf down the wave. In the old days sailors would also lash a holey can of oil inside the drogue - they claim the resulting oil slick stopped the waves from breaking. (My dad said so too but I have yet to see that proven). They are also great for throwing over the side when you are at anchor if there are a lot of swells rolling the boat side to side. That is what I have used them for the most, and also for drifting - if you want to drift in heavy sea they work good off the bow. I just assumed they are drogues. They are good to have on board and are cheap and easy to stow and very easy to use and I leave the chain attached on mine and just roll the chain up inside the bucket. The new fangled one that KADET posted:

http://www.burkemarine.com.au/pages/seabrake

looks great, and well designed and it looks like it already has a weight attached to it ready to go - I am going to get that one too - that looks like a great drogue. I think two of those would even stop mastrebs new boat from rolling in a beam swell. They look nice. (Leave it to those aussies to come up with a good one).