wind and wave limits for mac 26X

[bonati]

Again , a new point from a newcomer to this web and new owner of a Mac 26X...

Replies from another topic in Performance and tunning are inspiring to me another question to you experts in mac 26X , mainly the ones sailing in open sea ( but welcome ideas from anybody!):

What are in your subjective experience , the upper limits of wind , wave or combined for mac 26X , with or without reefing, genoa , etc? .. Probably it is a much too broad question , but it will be good to compare opinions , experiences , documentation etc ... Also probably this subject has been dealt with in the past in the forum ..

I do not know if this is the right forum or should be in Performance and tunning ... if so kindly indicate that to me ...

thanks again for your reading me...

[dlandersson]

On Lake Michigan:

Wind - 15+ knots
Waves - 2+ feet

Again , a new point from a newcomer to this web and new owner of a Mac 26X...

Replies from another topic in Performance and tunning are inspiring to me another question to you experts in mac 26X , mainly the ones sailing in open sea ( but welcome ideas from anybody!):

What are in your subjective experience , the upper limits of wind , wave or combined for mac 26X , with or without reefing, genoa , etc? .. Probably it is a much too broad question , but it will be good to compare opinions , experiences , documentation etc ... Also probably this subject has been dealt with in the past in the forum ..

I do not know if this is the right forum or should be in Performance and tunning ... if so kindly indicate that to me ...

thanks again for your reading me...

[Azzarac]

The boat will reach its limits long after you have met yours. There is a video of Rodger and his crew sailing in rough seas and 50+ knot winds and doing just fine. They however, know these boat's capabilities much better than any of us do. I've been caught out in a steady 30 mph blow unreefed on one of our local lakes. It came up suddenly and unexpected and lasted for about a half hour. Chameleon didn't seem to mind the wind and waves nearly as much as I did. Once we were pointed into the wind and could control the sails they came down and we motored back to the marina to wait it out. It's really just a matter of the limits of your comfort and expertise.

[Three Gypsies]

Gypsy has been caught in some horrendous storms and tall waves . Can't say how fast the wind was or high the waves were , because we were to busy fighting for our lives , at the time .

But I can say our MacTrawler performed beautifully .

As I wrote after a storm in Sapelo Sound Ga , "Roger Macgregor built a stout little ship ! "

[yukonbob]

You should probably reef after 15knts unless you want to see how far over you can get your Mac. Waves depend on frequency, not really height. An 8-10’ swell is a nice rise and fall and is just pure fun to sail in. Whereas 3-4’ breaking waves can push you around and make keeping a course almost impossible. That being said it sure is a lot of fun burying the bow beating to windward in some good standing waves. Been in winds gusting to 40knts, anchored, bare pole over 15 degrees. Sailed the 16nm downwind back to our home port in gales a handful of times (25-35knts w/5-6' breaking waves) under furled jib and have had no issues (IMO this is a better more comfortable option than motoring, put some good tunes on and get into the ‘groove’ and it becomes enjoyable, not a fight)

[paul I]

I doubt any of us actually knows the "limits" for wind or waves. If we ever actually reached them, we probably wouldn't be around to talk about it. What we know is the conditions where our comfort level starts to diminish. Mine is 15 knots of wind and 2 foot waves. After that it begins to get uncomfortable for me. This is not to say the boat can't handle 50 knot winds and 6 foot waves. It probably can. Can it handle that for 6 hours? 6 days? 6 weeks? I mean how do you judge something like that?

[Ixneigh]

in most areas people are apt to sail these boats I am sure that they can handle the occasional storm. I worry more about lightning. Have the sail handling experience so you can reef easily and have it be not a big deal. If it's really windy take down the sails and motor into it slowly. If the waves are tossing you around, by using a double reefed main, all the foils down and the motor going you should be able to jam her up into the wind just shy of luffing the sail and keep her pretty close to parked until it blows over. You should not have to contend with days long gales in this age of connectivity. If your going someplace out of cell range...get a different boat
The stock boat can be upgraded to make it a modest coastal cruiser but it's still too light for more then a few hours of bad weather. While the boat may weather it ok you will be so miserable you may well leave off boating for the rest of the year. On my boat as soon as I have to put two reefs in to keep her from being over canvassed it's time to look for shelter.
Ix

[kadet]

As has been said the boat will handle more than the crew. I have been in 30knots of Wind with 2 metre waves with the odd 3 metre breaking one thrown in for good measure. There is nothing scarier on these boats than looking up at foam rolling towards you sitting at the helm.

It took a few hours to get to a safe port and I was exhausted when I got back. At no point did I ever think we were in danger but to do this for more than a couple of hours without relief crew would be impossible.

My general rules depending on point of sail for wind are;

1-10 Full Main Genny or Spin
10-15 Full Main Jib
15-20 1 Reefed Main Jib
20-25 2 Reefed Main Slightly furled Jib
25+ Iron Genny, If I had to sail I would use the jib furled to an appropriate size as it has luff pads

Except for the Genny all my sails are custom not light weight factory ones.

[Chinook]

In my opiniion, an inclinometer provides a good measure of how much wind and/or sea height the boat can adequately handle. I find our X sails best heeled 10 to just under 20 degrees. When I start exceeding that, I'm shortening jib and considering a reef. The boat's ok at 20 degrees, but neither Sandy nor I enjoy the experience as much that far over. If you're heeled more than 20 degrees, you're starting to lift your upwind rudder out of the water so much that it's not doing anything for you. The hull shape also doesn't like extreme heel that much. I find that shortening sail before 20 degrees of heel actually allows me to sail faster and definitely more comfortably. One final consideration. When heeled more than 25 degrees with the galley side down, my Wallas stove vent is prone to take on water, and I really hate disconnecting it to drain the water out. That said, I'm a fairly conservative sailor and I know there are others on this board who would raise those limit numbers some. Still, once that rudder is out of the water, you're over powered and need to reduce sail.

[yukonbob]

That said, I'm a fairly conservative sailor and I know there are others on this board who would raise those limit numbers some.

It's fun to try and get these boats over in 10-15knt winds on a nice day and really push their limits, or just stall the boat at 55 degrees cause you can, but as it gets windier and wavier or you're actually trying to get to a destination, it becomes more work and/or uncomfortable.

[dlandersson]

My boat's limits are pretty much set by the crew. My kids can be very vocal when they don't like the heel.

I doubt any of us actually knows the "limits" for wind or waves.

[Herschel]

I find our X sails best heeled 10 to just under 20 degrees. When I start exceeding that, I'm shortening jib and considering a reef.

I agree with Chinook on this one. Of course a lot depends on your experience level and what you hope to get out of sailing. For me it is about relaxing and enjoying the outdoors and the soul satisfying movement of a sailboat through the water with the wind gently refreshing an overworked mind. I have had my X, which is my 9th sailboat, for twelve years, sailing mostly on inland freshwater lakes here in Florida, spiced up with river and ICW transits mostly under power. I was a competitive sailor in college (Chesapeake Bay & Bermuda race (1964)), but I haven't flown a Genny or spinnaker in ten years. I use the working jib all the time, now. I put a reef in the main at about 10 knots "just in case I need it". It is always easier to shake one out than put one in. I make a point to keep the boat on an angle of heel that my crew and guests enjoy with an occasional pushing of the limits, for a short spell, just to help them become a little more comfortable with slightly more aggressive sailing. But I watch how they are dealing with it very carefully and head up if someone is getting really uncomfortable.

[Dreamcatcher]

Finally, after replacing pretty much every moving and many non-moving parts over 4 years, I had a summer of sailing with Dream Catcher, a 2001 26X. This included a 12 day live-aboard in mid-coast Maine. I observed:
1. Heeling. 20 degrees is relatively comfortable since with its high sides, the Mac is nowhere near the water. If you are consistently heeling at 25 or more degrees, however, shortening sail will give you a more comfortable ride, and you will also go faster.

2. On almost every point of sail except dead downwind, I can find that magical point of balance between sail area, sail angle boat course relative to the wind, rig tuning, and rudder position where you don't fight the helm and fiddle with the sheets all the time. When the boat is balanced, it will sail itself long enough for me to go below and get a jacket or a bottle,of,water etc. one day during my trip, I was able,to spend 10 minutes at a time sitting in the bow hatch watching the boat sail from the bow, the best seat in the house, while the boat steered itself with a balanced sail plan and the inherent friction in the steering system. Learning to sail your boat balanced like that will teach you a lot about your boat's performance and build your self confidence.

3. A roller furling jib is indispensable for the single-hander. I first shorten sail by taking the Genoa in little by little until I can sail balanced. It's faster than reeling the main. When the rig no longer balances, I reef the main.

4. Most boats 20 feet and over can sail across the bay faster than the Mac. The X, with its 50 hp outboard is a better motor sailor then most of them, however and motor sailing is a big part of cruising in Maine.

5. One day, when it was blowing a steady 25 knots, I watched other goats tack and. Or or sail down the bay until they got to the narrow part. Most of,them then gave up and went home. I put a double,reef in the main before leaving the mooring and had fun motor sailing for several hours. I could not have done that with a cranky 20 year-old 8 hp diesel. As long as we have Macs, we should,take advantage of their "MacGregorness."

[yukonbob]

Finding that sweet spot is pretty nice. Can't seem to find it above 10knts of wind though. Nothing better than being on the bow under sail as your boat sails itself

[sailboatmike]

Auto pilot and Madmanmarine remote control http://www.madmanmarine.com/

You can sit on the bow and steer for hours, some I know even use it to dock single handed

Lots cheaper than the Raymarine remote unit and lots more functionality, it was designed by a trailer boat sailor for trailer boats, with lots of input from users, not some electronics engineer that just happens to work for a marine company