TIRE TUBES FOR FLOTATION???

[TaZ-n-Izzy]

Smoke free or not if it is flamable DO NOT USE IT!

is what seahouse wrote...thats the material most of our boats have!

[TaZ-n-Izzy]

Call me a pessimist, but the brochure photo with no engine, no ballast and five little guys standing on the deck in the marina is not realistic.

you are not pessimist, the brochure also have a pic of some "SUPERMAN" stepping up the mast with one hand! and we know that's not possible iRL

If the OP is planning on blue water sailing, add some flotation, and EPIRB and good PFDs. For most of us, it's never going to be an issue. And if you sleep better knowing your boat won't sink, then it's well worth adding the foam. If my boat sinks, I have insurance and in the meantime a nice storage locker over my dinette that once held a few scraps of Styrofoam.

i live in Puerto Rico, in the Caribbean, just plan to sail somewhere around here... but for me leaving the doc its blue water already

[Highlander]

I have been thinking of removing the aft birth cushions & replacing them with a double bed air mattress Mmm for more comfort for whoever sleeps there & extra flotation

J

[Russ]

Call me a pessimist, but the brochure photo with no engine, no ballast and five little guys standing on the deck in the marina is not realistic.

you are not pessimist, the brochure also have a pic of some "SUPERMAN" stepping up the mast with one hand! and we know that's not possible iRL

Yea, I suppose that's true. However, please don't depend on flotation as as safety net. Get a floating VHF handheld radio. Maybe one with GPS built in. Get good PFDs. Educate yourselves about offshore sailing. Maybe even an EPIRB. My friend left your island and sank his boat north of Cuba. I seriously doubt your boat will sink, however, it is likely you may be stranded and knowing what to do to get help may save lives.

Cheers

--Russ

[Ixneigh]

Huh that's too bad it looked like a really nice boat.

In my M I put 350 lbs of lead ballast down as close to the bottom as I could get. I also filled up several lockers with at least that much extra foam (buoyancy). I spray foamed it ,lightly in place. I think the boat wouid have to have a foam cored hull to be truly unsinkable. If I thought my life depended on it I could pitch all the heavy stuff in the boat like anchors and canned food pretty quickly. Maybe even the mast. I keep some serious cable cutters on board. I'm pretty confident my boat would float upright without the rig. Weather the hull wouid stay together in bad weather while swamped is another matter.
I deem this topic a moot point. You are more likely to hole the boat speeding around near shore under power then far out at sea because these boats are very uncomfortable in open ocean. Therefore most users don't go there.
Ix

[Russ]

Huh that's too bad it looked like a really nice boat.

In my M I put 350 lbs of lead ballast down as close to the bottom as I could get. I also filled up several lockers with at least that much extra foam (buoyancy). I spray foamed it ,lightly in place. I think the boat wouid have to have a foam cored hull to be truly unsinkable. If I thought my life depended on it I could pitch all the heavy stuff in the boat like anchors and canned food pretty quickly. Maybe even the mast. I keep some serious cable cutters on board. I'm pretty confident my boat would float upright without the rig. Weather the hull wouid stay together in bad weather while swamped is another matter.
I deem this topic a moot point. You are more likely to hole the boat speeding around near shore under power then far out at sea because these boats are very uncomfortable in open ocean. Therefore most users don't go there.
Ix

Agreed.

Your lead ballast probably makes it float upright more than most of us.

Most likely to punch a hole in your boat from running into a reef than open ocean.
Sumner is an extremely prudent sailor,, however most of have no business sailing these boats offshore with the exception of those like Sumner who learn the limits and how to use a small boat offshore.

[sailboatmike]

Huh that's too bad it looked like a really nice boat.

In my M I put 350 lbs of lead ballast down as close to the bottom as I could get. I also filled up several lockers with at least that much extra foam (buoyancy). I spray foamed it ,lightly in place. I think the boat wouid have to have a foam cored hull to be truly unsinkable. If I thought my life depended on it I could pitch all the heavy stuff in the boat like anchors and canned food pretty quickly. Maybe even the mast. I keep some serious cable cutters on board. I'm pretty confident my boat would float upright without the rig. Weather the hull wouid stay together in bad weather while swamped is another matter.
I deem this topic a moot point. You are more likely to hole the boat speeding around near shore under power then far out at sea because these boats are very uncomfortable in open ocean. Therefore most users don't go there.
Ix

Agreed.

Your lead ballast probably makes it float upright more than most of us.

Most likely to punch a hole in your boat from running into a reef than open ocean.
Sumner is an extremely prudent sailor,, however most of have no business sailing these boats offshore with the exception of those like Sumner who learn the limits and how to use a small boat offshore.

Im not so sure many many people have sailed much smaller less and probably way less seaworthy boats than a Mac across oceans, just have a look at the lists of small boats that have crossed the Atlantic, not only small boats but many totally inexperienced sailors.

Over the years we have lost the spirit of adventure and the culture of risk taking, Im sure the spanish explorers never had chart plotters , EPIRBs or even life jackets for that matter, and their boats could hardly be described as sea kindly or worthy by todays standards yet they crossed oceans.

I guess Im saying we are turning into people to scared to take a calculated risk and worse than that we try and scare others away from taking those risks

[TaZ-n-Izzy]

please don't depend on flotation as as safety net. --Russ

no, i'm not depending on this flotation foam as my safety net... just using it to buy a little more time to react in case of emergency

Get a floating VHF handheld radio. Maybe one with GPS built in. Get good PFDs. --Russ

im setting up a fix radio and a handheld so we will have two radios onboard.

Educate yourselves about offshore sailing. --Russ

leaving the doc its offshore for us!

Maybe even an EPIRB. --Russ

i will ask Santa

My friend left your island and sank his boat north of Cuba. I seriously doubt your boat will sink, however, it is likely you may be stranded and knowing what to do to get help may save lives.

Cheers --Russ

yes, i just read the history, sad sad sad

[TaZ-n-Izzy]

Most likely to punch a hole in your boat from running into a reef than open ocean.

Exactly that's my concern, there is a lot of reef in the areas i plan to sail, i know some areas but its a mine field

Sumner is an extremely prudent sailor,, however most of have no business sailing these boats offshore with the exception of those like Sumner who learn the limits and how to use a small boat offshore.

i been reading a lot of you guys passages and story's and i know i have a lot to learn

[Tomfoolery]

Get a floating VHF handheld radio. Maybe one with GPS built in. Get good PFDs. --Russ

im setting up a fix radio and a handheld so we will have two radios onboard.

Good advice there! I have a fixed VHF, a spare exactly like it, plus a handheld, plus a backup antenna for the fixed unit, in case of dismasting. That may be a little bit of overkill, but two full-power radios and no antenna is kind of a waste, so maybe not.

When I first moved here, an older gentleman disappeared in a small bay (Braddock Bay on the south shore of Lake Ontario) at dusk. Faint mayday calls were heard, which were from his handheld VHF as it turns out, but they couldn't find him until daylight. I don't know if he fell overboard, or the boat sunk. But it didn't end well. I actually remember seeing him and his boat, as I used the same marina back then.

I don't know that a VHF with GPS would have helped, or a strobe on his life jacket, or an EPIRB, but it's something to look into at least, especially when you're in the ocean as soon as you leave the dock. Lake Ontario can get rough, but it's not the ocean, and there's good USCG coverage here which you may not have, depending on how close you are to their stations.

[Russ]

Good advice there! I have a fixed VHF, a spare exactly like it, plus a handheld, plus a backup antenna for the fixed unit, in case of dismasting. That may be a little bit of overkill, but two full-power radios and no antenna is kind of a waste, so maybe not.

When I first moved here, an older gentleman disappeared in a small bay (Braddock Bay on the south shore of Lake Ontario) at dusk. Faint mayday calls were heard, which were from his handheld VHF as it turns out, but they couldn't find him until daylight. I don't know if he fell overboard, or the boat sunk. But it didn't end well. I actually remember seeing him and his boat, as I used the same marina back then.

I don't know that a VHF with GPS would have helped, or a strobe on his life jacket, or an EPIRB, but it's something to look into at least, especially when you're in the ocean as soon as you leave the dock. Lake Ontario can get rough, but it's not the ocean, and there's good USCG coverage here which you may not have, depending on how close you are to their stations.

What Tom said. A masthead antenna and 25w will get you range, especially over swells. However, backup is also a good idea.

[BOAT]

This brings up another interesting question:

When the ballast tank is EMPTY, does it not constitute a large amount of flotation?

Before you call me crazy here - work with me . . . let's say your ballast tank is EMPTY and tightly closed (the rear handle is down and you have the plug in secure at the vent).

That seems to me to be a HUGE amount of air flotation, am I right?

So, lets just say you are out in the ocean doing 20 under power with an empty tank and hit a log and the log puts a 4 foot hole in the side above the water line and then the waves pick up.

The empty tank will help keep you afloat even if the boat it completely swamped, right? The boat would of course turn upside down, but it would be UNABLE to sink with a ballast tank full of air, right?

[Tomfoolery]

About 1400 lb of water ballast means about 1400 lb of additional buoyancy when it's not there, since air weighs essentially nothing in this context, so it certainly would help. Until it leaks out and water leaks in, of course.

[TaZ-n-Izzy]

MINE IS A VN23 IRON BALAST(RETRACTABLE) NO WATER BALLAST

[TaZ-n-Izzy]

boommmm more foam!!! wooo hooooooooooo!!! (Part III)



Right in my office!!!

This weekend is foam day!!!!