17MPH undersail.

moonie · Post by **moonie** » Mon May 09, 2005 5:44 am

I just read Macs brochure on the M26 and they reckon that these boats have exceeded 17mph

under sails. Could this be a misprint or what?
I battle to get that with my 50 ETEC under full throttle.
What rig did they have on their test boat??

Anybody managed that speed yet??

Andy26M · Post by **Andy26M** » Mon May 09, 2005 6:55 am

Hehe -

Moonie, this question just has to come up over and over

So far, I have never read any convincing "proof" that the Mac can sail at 17 mph (14.8 knots), and I can guarantee you that I would never be able to do that in my 26M with full main and 150% genoa. I have no idea what rig you might need to make it - for sure you'll need to be up on a full plane...

Look back at old threads for many, many discussions of maximum speed, hull speed, theoretical speed calculations, ad nauseum. For a good chuckle, look up a web site called "the Cruising Log of the Murrelett" (or close wording to that) - if it is still up, that is.

I do believe that the Mac will exceed "theoretical hull speed" because those traditional calculations are for pure displacement hulls, not for hulls that (partially) plane. If a very good sailor told me he'd gotten 8 knots in absolutely perfect conditions, I could believe him, but I think the only way you'll see 15 knots under sail is going downriver with about ten knots of current behind you

What gets me is how people consider these boats to have such awful sailing performance. Ever take a good look at a review of a full-on cruising sailboat? They usually consider 7.5 knots under sail to be pretty darn good. If 7.5 knots is pretty good for a sailboat designed to sail across oceans, then why is 6 knots "bad" for a hybrid "power-sailor" that costs one-tenth as much?

- AndyS

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Mon May 09, 2005 7:24 am

Agree with you 100% on the 'performance issue' Andy

Moonie - the 17mph thing is pretty much fiction.

Personally I skip pretty quickly through most of the threads on sailing performance ...people seem to spend a lot of bandwidth on tweaking rig tightness, shape of sail, etc and throw out a number on speed, but there are so many tide, windage, variables that you cant honestly expect to compare numbers. A few hundred pounds of people and gear distributely differently make the CG and/or CA of the boat quite different. I dont think you can translate 86 vs 88 degrees of mast rake from boat to boat unless you are thinking about all this stuff.

The exceptions to this are the guys who will give you a running report on their rigs with something they tried and what its impact was....Hats off to you folks.

Ive been guilty of this myself when i talk about my speeds on the Hudson, then realise did I really correct for the tide which had changed since logged it on departure??? 2-3 mph difference in tide is a pretty big effect if you are trying to duplicate my numbers. My 4 mph against the full Hudson tide is pretty respectable. My 5 mph with tide probably means Im sloppy with something.

I went out with a New Zealander (Kiwis sail from birth, apparently) last May in strong wind and, in the space of 10 minutes, he struggled with Catigale like me, then I saw the light bulb go on, and he mastered my boat. What amazed me was not the speed, but the manner in which he could control the heeling of the boat on run,reach, and closehauled. I helmed and he trimmed. Hope to get him out this way again this year!

Mark Prouty · Post by **Mark Prouty** » Mon May 09, 2005 7:31 am

One of my favorite examples of Roger stretching the truth.

How Fast Will She Go Under Sail

Some other goodies is:

"The 26 has hatches that can be secured to keep water out of the boat. The most seaworthy object is an empty bottle with the lid screwed on. We have come pretty close to this concept with the 26. Most small powerboats are open to the sea and totally unsuitable for offshore or rough water operation." - yep lets take her to Hawaii

"The MacGregor 26 is one of the best handling and fastest trailerable cruising sailboats available anywhere."

I also like the shot of the 26X being towed by a Taurus in the manual.

Roger is full of it. Smart and produces and some awsome boats but full of it none the less.

Sloop John B · Post by **Sloop John B** » Mon May 09, 2005 7:43 am

A boat that may have been a Mac was clocked by radar at 75mph near Niagara, New York. Investigators are still sifting through the debris.

Mark Prouty · Post by **Mark Prouty** » Mon May 09, 2005 7:45 am

These claims by Roger have brought some otherwise intellegent people to the brink of insanity.

Frank M.

Rich Smith · Post by **Rich Smith** » Mon May 09, 2005 7:53 am

There actually was a case of a Mac hitting 17 mph...Apparantly it was crewed by a lion, a scarecrow, a dog, a tinman and a girl named Dorothy...with empty ballast.

I often tell people who ask that my

will never win a race but, with my Honda 50, I'll beat you in to the clubhouse for a beer every time!

Pouw Geuzebroek · Post by **Pouw Geuzebroek** » Mon May 09, 2005 7:56 am

Hmmm!!! I find it very difficult to get my X faster then 5.5 knots, but I do not have a genoa just the standard jib. Since the hull speed is 6.4 knots, I doubt it if it is possible at all to get any faster then that. But then we end up again in the hull speed/plaining discusion again.

delevi · Post by **delevi** » Mon May 09, 2005 9:16 am

The fastest I hit was 9 knts with full main and working jib on a broad reach. The wind was about 20 mph in San Francisco Bay. I think I had a little help from the current, however. The 17 mph is claimed to be achieved with the working spinkaer. I don't think you can use this spinaker in wind conditions strong enough to generate such speeds. You will completely overpowered by the 300 sq ft sail with winds over 12 knts. I would agree with the rest of you. Roger is full of it.

moonie · Post by **moonie** » Mon May 09, 2005 10:42 am

Do you all mean ,I've just waisted the whole day polishing my blue hull.
Thanks people, I thought there might be some hope.

Newell · Post by **Newell** » Mon May 09, 2005 1:34 pm

Don't tell the M brochure is also saying the same things the X claimed?

DavidB · Post by **DavidB** » Tue May 10, 2005 7:39 am

I have a 26 D which has almost the same bottom as the 26 M. The fastest that I have had my 26 D was 6.6 knots down winding and the dagger board pulled up to give less drag. Oh and the wind was blowing about 20 to 25 mph made for a interresting ride.

Mark Prouty · Post by **Mark Prouty** » Tue May 10, 2005 8:33 am

Newell wrote:Don't tell the M brochure is also saying the same things the X claimed?

Same BS - right from the 26M manual. Unbelievable!

Isn't there some kind of BS law. You can't sell a Geo Metro and claim it can do 220mph.

26M Manual wrote:The 26 balances beautifully. The big twin rudders give excellent
control. The boat is light. A light boat like this requires less sail
area to sail fast, so sail handling is easy. The 26s light weight and
its powerboat underbelly allow the boat to get up on top of the water
and plane in heavy winds. In such conditions, these boats have
exceeded 17 mph under sail. Most small sailboats, with their round
bottoms, have speeds limited to around 5 to 6 mph.
centerboards on other trailerables, the daggerboard retracts completely
into the hull, allowing beaching without fear of damage.
ROTATING MAST: Another reason why the boat is so fast is the
rotating mast. The 26s rig is similar to masts used on most modern

26M Manual

moonie · Post by **moonie** » Tue May 10, 2005 9:59 am

How really effective is the rotating mast in practice on the M26 regarding performance? When the mast rotates,it rotates fully to windward no matter what reach you are on. Partial rotation does not happen on my rig.
I find the rotation quite severe when changing tack.Is there anybody who has managed to smooth the movement out by changing the brass washers to bearings or any other conversion?

MacGregorSailors.com

MacGregorSailors.com

17MPH undersail.

17MPH undersail.

Don't go there ...