Mast raising - X vs M

[Mark Prouty]

Yes siree,

That was my first mod and I'm very happy with it. Erik made the mod a turn key install. He listed all the parts including part numbers, gave excellent installation instructions and provided pictures.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I'm glad it worked out, but confused why you had so much trouble with the std X version. I have used it for years with a furler with no problems at all. Are you sure you had it hooked up right?

Pole to the mast step, jib halyard to the top loop on the pole cleated off just past 90 degrees. Multipart block and tackle from the lower pole loop to the deck pad eye. Tail run back to the winch with 2-3 turns. Baby stays installed and snug to control all the side to side movement. Keep one bungee on the furler about 6' up to keep it aligned with the mast as you go up.

With this setup it is a simple, low stress raising process. You can stop at any point. (Always cleat the tail on the aft dock cleat, never trust the winch cam cleat.) The mast doesn't even have to be touched. The drum from the furler usually slides on the deck and off the side unless you reel it in with the furling line. It's a good idea to wrap a towel around it if you don't have someone to tend it so it doesn't scratch the deck.

While the M style is different, I don't see that it has any huge advantage to the X style when used properly.

[ALX357]

'other one of my endless questions here...
Mast raising rig..... COMPARE using the mast attachment point at the jib-head, (the jib pulley) with the point where the baby-stays attach, (with an added bail)....
ok, the forces.... lower point = more cantelevered weight = all the mast above the baby-stays, but a better lifting angle...
VS. upper point = less cantelevered weight (where would you stand, supposing you were tall enough, to lift the mast ?) but the angle for the lifting forces are actually much more shallow and thus less favorable...
SO, what would you conclude, (those of you that can analyze such.) better to use upper point, or the lower one, or is there a different OPTIMUM location for that attachment

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

The system is designed to use the upper point with the jib halyard (never the very top with the main halyard). With over 5000 X's sold, most with raising systems; multiplied by many mast raisings a year; times the years since 1995 when it went into production the X system has been well proven to be easily up to the task of raising the mast with or without a furler. I have heard of no halyard line or block failures over the years.

The only mast raising disasters I know of have come from poorly tied knots (learn how to tie a good bowline), ripped out cleats (it's just two little screws in aluminum, I tie the tail of the halyard to the vang bail as a backup), and lines that pop out of the cam cleat at the winch when you trip on it (hence the warning to always cleat on the aft dock line when going to fix a snag).

While maybe not as slick as the M system, using the X version is not a problem at all. The loads are well within the capacity of the parts. The biggest llifting load is at the initial lift off the crutch. The higher you get it the lighter the load. In fact, I find I stess the system far more at the end of the process when I crank down hard to get the forestay pinned than any load during the lifting process.

[Frank C]

... The higher you get it the lighter the load. In fact, I find I stess the system far more at the end of the process when I crank down hard to get the forestay pinned than any load during the lifting process.

In fact, seems that using any other attach point
(below the point where forestay and uppers join the mast)
will REDUCE the leverage available for pinning the forestay.

[ALX357]

i always do the mast raising from the deck anyway, with the standard arrangement, with the one difference of using a 3+3 block and jam-cleat setup (was the mainsheet rig off of a Hobie 16 i used to own ), which has a rachet sheeve for the last turn at its jam-cleat, and two large swivel snap shackles -- makes the raising work alot like a winch, with so much resistance to back-slip that hand pressure can hold it from dropping, even without cleating. Even released completely it won't drop the mast, but it will let it down faster than i want, so i just stay forward unless something gets hung, then cleat the rig and again the loose end to the fwd bow cleat, before i go back to manage whatever....I trust it more than the original, and it is probably stronger than the Mac's mainsheet set also.

[Tahoe Jack]

We went with Erik H's mod...and find it a winner. We did substitute a different winch and hooks. FYI, I will post my tweak on Erik's excellent project today...in the mod section. We leave the kit mounted much of the time, and added a Sunbrella booty for it.

[Tahoe Jack]

Re the SS fender baskets on 'Octopus'...sorry, these came with our boat...which had been tricked out by the dealer for a show. It was done by Mac dealer: Arena Yachts in the SF Bay area. You might google them up and inquire.

[Moe]

They look like Polyform fender holders. I believe you buy them separately without any clamps. Then you can buy joiners to make doubles or triples, and stanchion clamps.

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Moe

[ALX357]

PolyForm fender baskets, yes.... mine came boxed as two with the joiners and rail clamps included, and i re-arranged them to use under the seat. I have seen a photo of them mounted on the mid pulpit stanchion, one each side, but i think that would be really in the way there, while using just one angled inward inside each of the stern pulpits works good for me, after a bit of additional hardware. ...will show that too, in mods, maybe tomorrow.

[Moe]

Go to Defender and do a search on the phrase polyform holder.

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Moe