Windmills and water makers

[mastreb]

The Katadyn PowerSurvivor 40E is a 12VDC/4amp watermaker that can be converted to manual operation for emergencies. It's both the lowest power watermaker on the market and the only water maker that can be operated manually or electrically. For those reasons, It should be every boater's first water maker, and when they're dissatisfied with its meager output, they should keep it as their emergency backup watermaker.

http://www.katadyn.com/en/katadyn-produ ... r-40e12-v/

The biggest problem with watermakers is that they don't sit well. If you're not using them routinely, the membranes deteriorate and break. So there's little point in having one until you're doing offshore passage-making. But once you're going offshore routinely, I consider them to be mandatory safety equipment.

Consider that the Katadyn can be directly wired to a 48+ watt solar panel with no regulator, battery, or whatever--just power the Katadyn with the panel directly. Put the assembly out in the sun, it makes water. Easy peasy lemon breezy. No need for any kind of permanent installation. These panels can be had on Amazon for $100, and with no other trons necessary, it's more reliable than people pumping it. I'd use 60 watts to give some margin.

[mastreb]

Wow! You have almost the same exact plans that I do. I plan on a hybrid system. Ideally I would have a solar panel roof over the cockpit made ( I would make it) with a shower head installed in the center or two head (one above each side seat) so I could sit and shower or cool off in the heat with fresh water. If plan A falls through, then plan B is the arch with small outrigger capability for fishing and just mount commercial panels on back. But I really want to assemble my own solar cells on a designed roof that extends pretty far aft. There are plenty of videos instructing on your own solar panel builds. I don't want standard rectangles hanging off the back of my boat when I have wasted roof space by using a bimini. I do understand the advantage of the bimini, I just don't find the tradeoff more beneficial than an actual hard roof. If I build a solid enough structure on the forward half of the roof with aluminium, I thought about mounting the Sheet tackle on a rail, and get it out of the entryway so I can extend the roof forward and make a semi hard dodger. Not sure about that one though.

The problem you have here is weight well above the waterline. Let's say you did a full solar cover. This would be 6 x 4x2 panels on an aluminum frame with a forward and aft arch. You're talking 80 lbs. of frame material and 44 lbs. per panel x 6 panels. So we're overall talking about 350 lbs. of solar mounted about 7 feet above the center of rotation of the boat.

That's 2450 lbs. of levered rotational torque. The levered rotational torque obviates most of the levered torque of the water ballast, and makes the boat unsafe to sail. Its safe to power only when ballasted, and its going to make the boat EXTREMELY tender. Stepping on board will cause it to rock for a while.

Quite unfortunate, because its otherwise a brilliant idea.

600 watts of solar is more than sufficient for a MacGregor. That's two panels, plus 40 lbs. of aft arch, for a total levered problem of 130 lbs. You're pushing serious limits doing that, but I don't think it would be unsafe.

Were I to do this, I'd mount the panels over the bandit stripes on the foredeck. Keeps the stripes from fading, keeps the weight down low, and its otherwise unused space. The hatch is a solvable issue.

[Ixneigh]

I buy a kit that would neatly cover those bandit stripes with fitted solar cells.
Just in case anyone wants to make them.
Ix.

[Chopper Pilot]

Maarten, great comment!!! Great analysis. I have also been thinking of making an anchor locker hatch, that has the loan mower motor above the hatch, and the CAT Pump below it. But they both sandwich the hatch. I would then run my anchor rope and chain down under the v-berth. But again, this is a "plan b" setup. "Plan A" is the dingy rig. Now I still intend to build a new dagger board that will hang many individual weights from the end of it that I can mount when it is in the water by hand, one at a time.

[K9Kampers]

Overhead at the yacht club bar...

As a DIY'er, I figured out how to build a watermaker for under $1000, but the venture cost me $10,000!

No longer do I have to hike for miles every other day to the nearest town to fill my water jugs to live comfortably aboard my boat. NOW, I have to hike for miles every other day to the nearest town to fill my fuel jugs to run my watermaker to live comfortably aboard my boat!

[Stevenhigbee]

I once bought a commercial RO vending machine, and it cost less than $10k. But anyone deciding to DIY should be wary about the danger of working with such high pressure. A component flying loose could easily kill somebody or put a hole in your boat.

I like the suggestion about the reciprocating motor with the Katadyne hand-pump units. I'm actually thinking about 2 Katadyne units in opposing motion.

[kurz]

The Katadyn...
The biggest problem with watermakers is that they don't sit well. If you're not using them routinely, the membranes deteriorate and break.

What is the problem exactely? Do the membranes deteriorate just when the are stored for some years. Or do they break when not treted well in use? Katadyn sais that you have tu put some liquid in to protect against bacterias. Iven then the membranes break?

[Ixneigh]

The water makers currently require the user to pickle the membrane in a special solution if it's going to be idle or stored. That's why the ebay units are so cheap. The membrane, the most expensive part, is probably bad from improper storage.
This is not a device like an outboard, that you can use once a month at a moments notice.
People actively cruising use it daily and that's what it's designed for. You still have to disinfect the membrane periodically. That means accessing the unit and removing parts of it. Parts that are under high pressure and have seals to keep from leaking. The unit is probably jammed somewhere out of sight, of course. Not sure about the new ones, but years ago a guy had the first power survivor model. The machine dripped saltwater from somewhere all the time. It had a couple bulky prefilters. It had to be plumbed so it had a discharge line overboard for the waste water.
Personally , I think that these things are fine on larger boats that have the space to properly set the system up so its easy to get to for care. And the , I think it has to be something of a hobby. Your going to be messing with frequently even just to inspect everything.

Ix

[March]

Ixneigh wrote
You still have to disinfect the membrane periodically. That means accessing the unit and removing parts of it. Parts that are under high pressure and have seals to keep from leaking. The unit is probably jammed somewhere out of sight, of course.

Not really. The unit I got cheap on e-bay came with a small plastic bag with disinfectant, good for three or four cycles. After the first year when the watermaker worked impeccably in the bahamas, I disinfected it by simply pumping the solution, without having to dismantle the unit, stored it for one year, and the following summer it was as good as new. The disinfectant is probably available for purchasing separately. I will use it again next year, and even if the unit breaks down afterwards, I feel that $30.00 per year is reasonable. Buying the same quantity of water in the islands would have been even more expensive.

The small Katadyn unit is worthless--it is simply meant to keep you alive. But with the bigger one, you can make a quart of perfectly drinkable water in 10 minutes of moderate exercising.

[K9Kampers]

...so its a neutral gain then?! Ya make enough to replenish what ya lose making it!

[March]

I gotta live to see a 10 minute moderate workout resulting in a liter of sweat, but to each his own

Now when it comes to drinking beer, that's a different story

[K9Kampers]

I must be part Irish cause after a 10 minute workout, Ima hankerin' fer a Guinness!

[Highlander]

I must be part Irish cause after a 10 minute workout, Ima hankerin' fer a Guinness!

J

[Highlander]

Boat Mods r even worse !!!


J

[Chopper Pilot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmA_8ix-al4