Backstay Install?

[Chopper Pilot]

Those of you who have a model boat and you have a backstay installed, can you please send every close up picture you have where it connects to the mast and where it connects to the boat? I want to make this a solid boat over the winter (now that I am no longer stationed in Hawaii) so I can get this boat ready for the Bahamas.

Also please list wire size and exact tackle used on this. I am not sure how it will attach to the head.

I will video making this mod with several good cameras so others can do the same. I am thinking about adding another website for modifications with video of installing and pictures.

(Side note, what type of epoxy do I coat my bottom with before I add my bottom paint? again another possible video)

[Russ]

Why do you want to add a backstay?

[Chopper Pilot]

I want my mast to be tied down on all ends. I see zero reason not to, but if I ever get knocked over, I want as many lines up top holding on. The waves I had in Hawaii, I should have had a backstay. My nose would pitch down pretty hard. I do not want to get caught in a bad position without it

[Russ]

I want my mast to be tied down on all ends. I see zero reason not to, but if I ever get knocked over, I want as many lines up top holding on. The waves I had in Hawaii, I should have had a backstay. My nose would pitch down pretty hard. I do not want to get caught in a bad position without it

Hmm... well you certainly can. This is the first boat I've had without a backstay. Took a while to get used to nothing there to grab. However, I'm glad not to have one as it opens up the cockpit. The boat was designed (as many now are) without the need.

The rotating mast is the tricky part. Probably not that tricky. You will need an attachment point on top that allows it to rotate. Mount a chainplate off center on the transom someplace. The X has it this way.

I think Highlander with all his extra headsails has done this. Hopefully he will chime in with how he did it.

[Russ]

Actually, looking at Highlander's rig, he's got an entire tower back there. However, I bet you could attach something to the mast crutch.

[kadet]

I want my mast to be tied down on all ends. I see zero reason not to, but if I ever get knocked over, I want as many lines up top holding on. The waves I had in Hawaii, I should have had a backstay. My nose would pitch down pretty hard. I do not want to get caught in a bad position without it

Really?
How will a backstay help a B&R rig?

Forestay Breaks rig goes, either side stay breaks rig goes, back stay breaks well nothing cause it does nothing, so there or not nothing. The only possible thing that might help is a pair of runners to relieve pressure on the forestay in bad conditions with a storm jib but it won't save the rig if it lets go. Unless you are going to turn the thing into a cutter ala Highlander your backstay will be as useless as an udder on a bull. And if you just simply rig it to the top of the mast with only the fractional forestay you could actually induce pressure in the upper portion of the mast causing it to fail at the sidestay hounds.

[Chopper Pilot]

Maybe I was not clear enough, I actually use my motor when the mast is up to push through waves. If you watch one of my videos, you can see me slamming the nose into the water at a different rate than I do just sailing.

[Russ]

Maybe I was not clear enough, I actually use my motor when the mast is up to push through waves. If you watch one of my videos, you can see me slamming the nose into the water at a different rate than I do just sailing.

So is your concern that the mast is not supported adequately with the stock rig?

[grady]

On these boats all a back stay is used for is to curve the mast to flatten out the sail to depower it in high wind. I will not add any more safety than the two side stays. If you are that concered you will get more safety by replacing your rigging. (And then inspecting it regularly)

[Crikey]

Adding a cutter system or running an asymmetrical load off a fore-stay definitely needs the consideration of a back-stay. Rear support on an begs the question, and there's no doubt the swiveling mast would need some attention overcoming the extra friction involved.
Over-turning, or under-turning the main-mast into the airflow under a line-control system, must be capable of enabling some positive gains under certain sailing conditions.
You also can't dispute the huge increase in fail-safe that happens with the addition of an extra stay.

[kadet]

Maybe I was not clear enough, I actually use my motor when the mast is up to push through waves. If you watch one of my videos, you can see me slamming the nose into the water at a different rate than I do just sailing.

Still how will a backstay help in that case, with the shock loads? The observation that the backstay does nothing still stands.

Your better option is to slow down and not slam the flat hull

Remember these boats are a hybrids they are not good sailers and they are not good stink boats either but they are both at once and generally acceptable as a compromise.

B&R rigs are support allround at 120 degrees, this is a very strong system of support the same that is used to support large transmission towers. It actually evens out the load better than 4 points at 90 degrees. Remember in engineering a triangle is stronger than a square. You have a triangle you don't need to turn it into a square

I would hate to think that you are just going to add a backstay believing that you have solved your problem and then go off powering through the chop and break your rig. We are just trying to point out that merely adding a backstay is not addressing your problem and does nothing on it's own.

[kadet]

You also can't dispute the huge increase in fail-safe that happens with the addition of an extra stay.

With an unmodified B&R rig I can and do. A backstay does absolutely nothing to increase the safety of a fraction sloop rig, in fact the unsupported loads it places on the head of the mast can actually decrease the safety of the rig by upsetting the balance.

If you are talking about a backup to the forestay e.g. running a spare halyard to the pulpit that's a different story

[BOAT]

The sailboat is pulled through the water by the mast step, the Main sheet block, the Genoa Sheet line, and the Side stays.
The Forestay has the least pressure.
Top of the mast is supposed to bend - the bending relives pressure underway in heavy wind. A backstay will just put more stress on the forestay.
Big % of the pulling power is right there in your hand (the main sheet block). That's why the MAC M has that steel ladder bolted to the main traveler and then that bolted down to the hull liner - the traveler is doing a LOT of the pulling of the boat through the water. Lots of stress there and on the side stays when underway. There is actually less stress on the forestay when underway except for the stress it gets from the headsail (that's why it's so small) .
A backstay may be a good idea if you plan to run a lot of spinnaker type sails downwind in heavy waves and high wind - but i would recommend two back stays in that situation - one from each corner of the transom to the top of the mast and then you also must run your headsails from the top of the mast - fractional rigs are not the best setup for that kind of thing, but it's possible.

Were you planning a transpac type leg in heavy seas running the wind flying a big kite for days on end? If not, I don't think the backstay would do much good.

[Russ]

I could be wrong, but my impression is the OP is concerned with the mast bouncing around from pounding the waves hard.

[BOAT]

I could be wrong, but my impression is the OP is concerned with the mast bouncing around from pounding the waves hard.

Oh, sorry. Why worry about that? I thought maybe he was preparing for a long ocean trip or something. My bad.