DIY Shore Power Install

[Wind Chime]

We are in the final planning stage for the A/C Shore Power mod into our 2000 and would like your advice to consider any possible changes.

We have shore power now through extension cords and a GFI power bar that runs things like; battery charger, TV/DVD, toaster/kettle, ceramic heater, etc. Thanks to all the good friends on this site, our plan is to install higher quality power useing standard shore power connectors in the standard installation places that many others have done on the X, but my biggest unknown right now is running the wires.

Materials:
1) Breaker Panel: (Blue Sea #8143)
http://www.go2marine.com/item/114294/bl ... -8143.html
2) Through Hull Connector: (Marinco #303SSEL-B)
http://www.go2marine.com/product/70938F ... steel.html
3) Shore Power Cable: (Marinco #199119)
http://www.go2marine.com/product/247366 ... cator.html
4) Duplex Outlets: (West Marine #1591-FI)
http://www.westmarine.com/buy/marinco-- ... 70_002_508
5) Flexible Conduit:
http://superflex.com/sealproof-electric ... ubing.html
6) Inverter Option:
Source Selection Switch: (Blue Sea #303SSEL-B)
http://www.go2marine.com/product/99867F ... witch.html
* We have a 300 watt inverter I would like to install through the same system to switch the outlets between: A/C (shore power) and D/C (inverter).

Installation:
Through Hull: Aft port side of black stripe, hole going into the D/C breaker panel area.
GFI Duel Outlets: 1 @ battery charger, 1 @ port galley area, 1 @ starboard dinette area.
Breaker Panel: below factory D/C breaker panel area. (we have our stereo mounted in this area now as well)
http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/in ... ewimg=3664

Questions:
1) Electrical Wire:
- What kind (size) wire should I use to go from the breaker panel to the three separate outlets. (strand wire? gauge? etc.)
2) Running the wires:
- I do not want any open wires in the bilge like some installations I have seen, so I want to run the wires inside “flexible” (not solid) plastic conduit under the bilge area. Has anyone done this? I have only seen one Mac mod with PVC conduit but they used rigid grey conduit that was visible in the cabin area.
- I also want the three GFI outlets installed inside flush-mount PVC electric boxes, as well as PVC junction boxes at the points where the three wires from the breaker panel separate and go into different areas of the boat to each outlet.

Thank for any ideas and suggestions!
Darry

[kevinnem]

might want to check in to that panel? It seems like it might be a 240 volt system, and your using 110, meaning that depending on how it work, you might only get like 1/2 of the panel to work. Also, there is a double ganged switch at the top, not sure what that is for...someone explain that to me please?

The outlets look pretty $$$, I would wonder what makes them "Marine", GFI (or GFCI) are pretty common, so I would consider this a little bit.

Wire gauge depends on the amperage carried, and I think that for marine use, you should use stranded wire, not solid, and spade plugs at the ends - hopefully someone will confirm that.

you will need to put some thought in to your system, I highly suggest you draw it out on paper, as to the invert location. Plan "B" is you could buy one of the inverter/charger combo units. Often you want shore power to run a battery charger...but you wouldn't wan to concurrently run an inverter and shore power , both providing AC to a ac bus I am pretty sure that would end badly. the combo chargers have something called a automatic trasfer switch, that dort of does this function for you .

[Tomfoolery]

might want to check in to that panel? It seems like it might be a 240 volt system, and your using 110, meaning that depending on how it work, you might only get like 1/2 of the panel to work. Also, there is a double ganged switch at the top, not sure what that is for...someone explain that to me please?

The 2-pole ('double-ganged') breaker is a requirement for the main breaker of 120V marine systems, as both the hot and neutral have to be broken when opened. Probably has something to do with the potential for reverse polarity on the incoming mains.

But you're correct that it's a 240V panel - that's the European version. The North American version of the same panel is this one. http://www.go2marine.com/item/21411/ac- ... -8043.html Good catch!

[Tomfoolery]

Questions:
1) Electrical Wire:
- What kind (size) wire should I use to go from the breaker panel to the three separate outlets. (strand wire? gauge? etc.)

14-gauge copper is what the NEC calls for, regardless of insulation temperature rating (small conductors are held to a lower ampacity than NEC Table 310.16 shows). This is a boat, not a building (or a crane), but 14 gauge copper with 60 deg. C insulation will support 15A. You should consult the ABYC standards to see if heavier conductors are recommended.

2) Running the wires:
- I do not want any open wires in the bilge like some installations I have seen, so I want to run the wires inside “flexible” (not solid) plastic conduit under the bilge area. Has anyone done this? I have only seen one Mac mod with PVC conduit but they used rigid grey conduit that was visible in the cabin area.

Havn't done that, but Ancor marine triplex wire is rated 105C dry and 75C wet, and can be run without conduit. Any wiring near the bottom of the boat I would consider a wet location (actually, I'd consider it all a wet location), but with 75C insulation rating wet, it should be fine for 15A branch circuits, with or without flex conduit.

- I also want the three GFI outlets installed inside flush-mount PVC electric boxes, as well as PVC junction boxes at the points where the three wires from the breaker panel separate and go into different areas of the boat to each outlet.

Again, I don't know what the rules are for boats, but I wouldn't take shortcuts with 120V wiring, so junction boxes where multiple cables or conductors branch off would be SOP.

Connection of all receptacles to an inverter will require a transfer switch with a 30A rating, which has to disconnect both the shore power hot and neutral before connecting the inverter (break before make), and I don't know if the equipment ground also has to be disconnected. My experience is in this area is in buildings and cranes, not boats. Time to consult published references on the subject. But a 30A transfer switch for a 300W (2.5A) inverter is getting out there. I would just use it as a stand-alone, but that's just my opinion.

[RobertB]

So, considering making my own panel - need one main breaker and three branch breakers. Price to beat is $205 for the Blue Seas 8043 http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems- ... e+ac+panel
Prices from Amazon:
Blue Seas 7237 30A 2-pole breaker: $28
Blue Seas 7210 15 A single pole breakers: 3 x $15 = $46
Blue Seas 8166 Red AC LED: $3
Blue Seas 8134 Green LEDs: 4x $3 = $12
Blue Seas 2710 dual bus: $16
Blue Seas 2304 mini bus: $11
Total: $116
Add to this an exterior plastic electrical box and some screws and can make the equivalent system for about $130

[Tomfoolery]

You forgot the 25kohm resistor for the reverse-polarity LED.

[Russ]

Never use solid wire on a boat. Vibration will cause fatigue and cracking and bad things. Stranded is the way.

I would use 14 gauge. If you plan on pulling more than 15 amps (typical heater) then maybe go up to 12 gauge. Can't hurt to go heavier.
http://www.amazon.com/Ancor-Marine-Elec ... B000Q7WW2G

Not sure running wires inside conduit is a good idea. Water might get in and have no place to go. Secure wire so it's not flopping around. Friction and wear would be your worst enemy.

Where are you putting all these outlets? I would think 2 would be plenty.

300 watt inverter is pretty small. I'm no fan of inverters. They suck so much power, are terribly inefficient. The 12v side needs to be HEAVY wire close to the battery because they suck so much power.
I've done it. Plugged my shore power cable into the inverter to power AC outlets in the boat. Soon learned how fast it drains batteries.

[Russ]

some info

http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/sa ... epower.asp

[Wind Chime]

Thanks for poking holes in my plan folks , much appreciated!

Yes - this as a typo. I checked my notes and the correct Blue Sea panel is as you suggest the 8043-120v. Thanks!

might want to check in to that panel? It seems like it might be a 240 volt system, and your using 110, meaning that depending on how it work, you might only get like 1/2 of the panel to work. Also, there is a double ganged switch at the top, not sure what that is for...someone explain that to me please?

No need for an all-in-one inverter/charger as I already have a good 3-stage marine charger and 300 watt inverter.
The idea of the "selector switch" is to avoid the problem you suggest of multiple current into the same system. When at dock: switch to SHORE for dock AC, when at anchor: switch to GEN (inverter in my case) for battery inverted AC. This allows me to use the same outlest for both sources of AC.

This source selector switch goes "in-line" before the 8043 breaker box ... correct? (with wires from SHORE and INVERTER)

6) Inverter Option:
Source Selection Switch: (Blue Sea #303SSEL-B)
http://www.go2marine.com/product/99867F ... witch.html
* We have a 300 watt inverter I would like to install through the same system to switch the outlets between: A/C (shore power) and D/C (inverter).

Plan "B" is you could buy one of the inverter/charger combo units. Often you want shore power to run a battery charger...but you wouldn't wan to concurrently run an inverter and shore power , both providing AC to a ac bus I am pretty sure that would end badly. the combo chargers have something called a automatic trasfer switch, that dort of does this function for you .

[Wind Chime]

This is the first I have heard about needing a "30A transfer switch" ? What is this and why?
From what I have read, a selector switch (below) isntalled "before" the breaker box is all that is required to swich from shore to inverted AC. Not the case?

6) Inverter Option:
Source Selection Switch: (Blue Sea #303SSEL-B)
http://www.go2marine.com/product/99867F ... witch.html
* We have a 300 watt inverter I would like to install through the same system to switch the outlets between: A/C (shore power) and D/C (inverter).

Connection of all receptacles to an inverter will require a transfer switch with a 30A rating, which has to disconnect both the shore power hot and neutral before connecting the inverter (break before make), and I don't know if the equipment ground also has to be disconnected. My experience is in this area is in buildings and cranes, not boats. Time to consult published references on the subject. But a 30A transfer switch for a 300W (2.5A) inverter is getting out there. I would just use it as a stand-alone, but that's just my opinion.[/color]

[RobertB]

You forgot the 25kohm resistor for the reverse-polarity LED.

These LEDs have the resistor. https://www.bluesea.com/products/8166/LED_-_250V_AC_Red

Or, are you indicating there is a second resistor needed?

[Wind Chime]

Never use solid wire on a boat. Vibration will cause fatigue and cracking and bad things. Stranded is the way.
I would use 14 gauge. If you plan on pulling more than 15 amps (typical heater) then maybe go up to 12 gauge. Can't hurt to go heavier.

- Stranded wire is what we will use then, and sounds like 12 gauge is the right size?

Not sure running wires inside conduit is a good idea. Water might get in and have no place to go. Secure wire so it's not flopping around. Friction and wear would be your worst enemy.

- The idea of conduit was to stop my biggest concern which is "chaff wear" from vibration, or me accidently jamming something against it, etc.

Where are you putting all these outlets? I would think 2 would be plenty.

- 3 outlets. One for Battery Charger (under aft port sette) One for Galley (above aft port sette). One for: Dinnet area (aft starborad dinette seat)
This is the same postion we have outlets now, by running extenion cords.

300 watt inverter is pretty small. I'm no fan of inverters. They suck so much power, are terribly inefficient. The 12v side needs to be HEAVY wire close to the battery because they suck so much power.

- The 300 watt inverter works just fine now for the things we need, mostly TV/DVD or laptop. But we are running a seperate extention cable on the sole from where the inverter is kept (with aft battery under aft port sette) across the boat to the TV/DVD above the dinette.
http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/in ... ewimg=3664

[Tomfoolery]

You forgot the 25kohm resistor for the reverse-polarity LED.

These LEDs have the resistor. https://www.bluesea.com/products/8166/LED_-_250V_AC_Red

Or, are you indicating there is a second resistor needed?

No, no second resistor. I didn't know those were complete, as I didn't look them up. Mostly I was trying to be funny. Guess it didn't work.

[Tomfoolery]

Never use solid wire on a boat. Vibration will cause fatigue and cracking and bad things. Stranded is the way.
I would use 14 gauge. If you plan on pulling more than 15 amps (typical heater) then maybe go up to 12 gauge. Can't hurt to go heavier.

- Stranded wire is what we will use then, and sounds like 12 gauge is the right size?

14 gauge is good to 15A, and those branch circuit breakers are 15A. Your call if you want heavier conductors. Voltage drop is a very minor consideration, as the run is very short as these things go.

Not sure running wires inside conduit is a good idea. Water might get in and have no place to go. Secure wire so it's not flopping around. Friction and wear would be your worst enemy.

- The idea of conduit was to stop my biggest concern which is "chaff wear" from vibration, or me accidently jamming something against it, etc.

Water getting in and having no where to go is one reason why you need conductors with insulation rated for 'wet' locations (like underground conduit), and AFAIK Ancor marine cable assemblies are so rated. I would use conduit where needed for protection against physical damage, but not necessarily the whole run. This is also consistent with NEC requirements. I don't know what the ABYC says about it, but I would imagine they have a fair bit to say about it.

[Wind Chime]

The internet is so full of great info, not sure how we managed to stumble around before it ... "World Book Encyclopedia" wasn't it
Thanks for the link - I've read this article and watched the video when I first started researching this porject. Some pretty good information in it.

I have a couple of marine electric books and videos at home as well, and I can not find anywhere about "best practice" of running wires from the breaker panel to the outlets?

Here is simlar page: http://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/DIY-Shore-Power

some info

http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/sa ... epower.asp