Tow to Virginia Beach from Kentucky or rent?

[teddadbear]

We're visiting friends who moved to Virginia Beach, and today they told us they haven't found a reasonably priced sailboat to rent. So, I'm considering towing my Mac26X 606 miles from Lexington, KY to Virginia Beach, VA with my 2006 Toyota Sienna minivan rated for 3,500 pounds. I'll have my wife, 4 kids, and our gear, so the van will be loaded. I've towed that much with no problems on flatter land to Lakes Erie, Huron, and Michigan, but when I towed it to Hilton Head we went with friends who towed our boat with their Ford Excursion; that was so strong that the boat was barely noticeable except in the steepest mountains going up or down. The trip is through West Virginia and western Virginia, which are both quite mountainous.
What would you do, tow or rent?

[Starscream]

From what I understand of the US legal system I wouldn't tow anywhere if there was even the tiniest detail that could pin responsibility on me in case of an accident. Towing with a vehicle rated under the actual load, or over the manufacturer's listed GVWR or GCWR, is playing with fire in my book.

I won't even tow in the US with my dual axle trailer because it's the original trailer, but modified with a second axle which could (would?) be argued to be the cause of any accident. This is part of what is driving my decision to upgrade to a new trailer.

It sounds like you don't have full confidence in your rig and that's a warning sign...even if nothing happens the stress of not being fully confident for hundreds of miles can make that adventure seem more like an ordeal. If you are confident though, why not? Towing will probably cost you 6 mpg or so maybe another 40 gallons for the whole trip? WAAY cheaper than renting and you have a "camper" with you. One night less in a hotel breaks you even.

You have to watch the transmission temp on a drive like that. One time I was towing about 200 miles and accidentally left the overdrive activated. My Durango has a TOW switch that locks out the overdrive but each time you shut the motor off you have to reactivate it and I forgot after a pit stop. My wife noticed because of the intense heat that began radiating through the floorboards. Ooops. In the end, only you can make the decision: is your rig capable and safe for that kind of long-haul?

[RobertB]

I would not be so worried about the legal system unless you are being grossly negligent. That said, you are pulling over your rated weight with a fully loaded van. I have pulled over my rated weight but driven a second car for passengers and gear in order to keep the loading on the rear axle of the car down, and the total weight since you will be passing thru some mountainous areas. In the configuration you are describing, I would plan on new tires and possibly a new transmission at the end of the trip (based on personal experience).
Recommend you rent a vehicle to tow the boat.

[Russ]

I used to have the same van and it was capable of the task. I never towed the Mac with it, but our runabout had no problems being towed by it. Our van was 2004 AWD and was great on the ramp. You will feel something back there, but not terrible.

Kevin tows his Mac with the same van. Maybe he can chime in with his experience.

The Sienna has a water cooled transmission via the radiator, so it won't overheat. The V6 is fairly powerful. Mountains might be an issue. The Sienna obtains highest torque at 3-4k rpm and it will rev on uphills.
Does the trailer have brakes? If not, I say don't do it.

The only other question is the load on your van with occupants. How big are your kids? The trailer tongue will add something like 450 pounds on the back of the car. If your kids are little and your gear not heavy, the van can do it.

Just go slow, check tire pressure and load gear in the boat if you can. And turn off overdrive.
You will burn a LOT of gas, but that's the cost of vacations. The gas mileage goes WAY down while towing.

--Russ

[J--]

Remembering my last trip through WV, it's not really the hills that will be a problem, but the horrible roads that will destroy your suspension! Go ahead and make the trip, just plan on buying new shocks when you get back!

[Tomfoolery]

The Sienna has a long wheelbase and wide track, similar to the Honda Odyssey, which is really nice for towing. BUT, there is a lot of discussion on a Sienna forum about towing with it, including the need for an engine oil cooler, and possibly a power steering cooler. Neither are expensive, but it's worth looking into at least, as it's better to spend a few bucks to keep your engine and p/s fluids within design limitations.

[Sea Wind]

I would not do it. I posted the following table a couple of years ago for a Honda pilot with a rated towing capacity of 4500 lbs:

number of maximum total maximum tongue
occupants trailer weight weight
2 4500 450
3 4300 400
4 4100 330
5 4000 270
6 3800 190
7 2000 100
8 towing not recommended

As you can see with 6 passengers tongue weight is only 190 and this is for a SUV rated at 1000 pounds higher than the Siena. I don’t think that the risk or stress on the road is worth it.
Rather than rent a towing vehicle, why not rent one just for the other passengers and cargo?

[Russ]

Kevin tows his Mac easily with his Sienna


I do believe he has an air lift system like this.
http://www.airliftcompany.com/vehicles/ ... b_model=SE

There seems to be some discussion (on Siennachat.com) about the need for an oil cooler. In my opinion, this is unnecessary. The engine (full of oil) already has a cooler (the radiator) which is adequate for the job. Use a quality synthetic oil and you should be fine. My 2013 Highlander requires synthetic oil. Seems Toyota has gone to all synthetic now.
The only concern is transmission oil cooler which the Sienna already has built into the radiator.

The car has a very wide wheel base and an excellent traction control system. My AWD Sienna was fantastic on snow and ice.
I did have a trailer light short and blow a fuse that strangely controlled the stability control system. I put the car in park and it locked it there. Fortunately I found an "emergency" release so I could get it out of park and drive home. Keep spare fuses, apparently brake lights are connected to the computer controls somehow.

If you have an AWD, you know that it uses run flats instead of a spare tire. They are horrible and wear out in 10k miles. I ditched them for real tires and 2 cans of fix a flat and a AAA membership.

--Russ

[teddadbear]

I use 100% synthetic oil, premium oil filters, and change my oil myself right after a 100+ mile drive, so all the dirt is suspended and drains out when I drain the old oil. The engine runs like a top even at 137k miles. The van was factory equipped for towing 3,500 pounds. My 4 kids are between 100 and 185 pounds; my 190 pound son isn't going, but he has previously and I didn't notice a difference or problems towing the Mac26x over multihundred mile distances. Getting new rotors on the van's front brakes as we speak, the drums on the rear were turned this morning, and the wheels are being aligned. Will probably get a $3M umbrella insurance policy before we leave!

[Russ]

Will probably get a $3M umbrella insurance policy before we leave!

Good idea. If you are adequately insured otherwise, the $3mil policy is ridiculously cheap. These days, all lawsuits start at $2mil.

Now is the Mac up for salt water? Rinse that trailer well with fresh water after launching. Flush the motor with fresh when you get home. Enjoy the beach.

[mastreb]

I've towed a Mac from DC through VA and KY. The roads there were definitely hilly but I didn't consider them to be any issue at all.

I think the vehicle can do it, especially if you keep to 55mph. It's a good idea to insure against liability if you're worried about that; I wouldn't be. The odds of causing a problem for anybody but yourself is remote. Take my advice with a grain of salt; I'm generally more risk tolerant than most.

[Russ]

I'm more afraid of lawyers. Billy was right.

Yesterday I witnessed a horse trailer get uncoupled from the hitch. Dropped to the ground. They didn't have safety chains at all. Saw them put it back on the ball and drive away. Poor horses if they hit another big bump.

[RobertB]

I will speak up once more then shut up. The area you are playing with fire is the loading on your rear tires and suspension. With a full load of passengers and luggage, there is a good chance you are already overloaded. Add at least 450 pounds to the trailer tongue and you now are likely way above any safety factor. This coupled with the fact you will be driving at least 10 hours means you are a prime candidate for tire failure.
Good luck.

[White90GT]

Do you guys really get 450 lbs of tongue weight on your MAC's? How are you measuring that?

We just had to "rebuild" our 26x factory trailer due to rust issues. We replace the entire tongue tubing with a new galvanized piece and actually extended the tongue and moved the boat forward on the trailer (the bump stop) about 8"-10" from the factory position. When we put the boat back on it I put a regular house scale under the tongue of the boat and was only seeing 257 lbs when I sat it down on there.

[Tomfoolery]

Mine's about the same as yours, but if I empty the fuel tanks, and move a few heavy things forward, the tongue weight goes up fast. Tilt the OB all the way up; it moves the OB's center of mass as far forward as it will go. If you have stuff like water bottles or jugs, food, other supplies, move them forward to the v-berth, or the cabin sole as far forward as it will go.

A bathroom scale and a short length of 2x4 is all you need to measure tongue load. If the scale doesn't go high enough, you can use a beam with one end on the middle of the scale, the other end on a pipe or narrow block the same height as the scale, and the vertical two-by at the middle of the beam. What you read is half of what's actually there. But make sure the trailer hitch is at the same height off the ground (on level ground) as it is when on the ball, loaded. Tilting the trailer one way or the other can change the tongue weight because the center of mass of the boat and trailer is rocking around the axle center, so it moves forward and back. Not a lot, but it does move noticeably.