Anchors and anchor rollers

[Boblee]

Some interesting points made here http://www.mysailing.com.au/news/testin ... of-anchors unfortunately? our anchoring solution can be the exact opposite from one night to the next with so many variables that there can be no set rule but an anchor that sets and resets quickly is a must and many don't especially in varying conditions.

[Seapup]

an anchor that sets and resets quickly is a must and many don't especially in varying conditions.

I agree that tide/wind shifts and resetting are often the largest factor why boats go wandering. So continuing to stir the pot, why worry about resetting ability at all when a bahamian moor takes an extra 2 minutes and eliminates the reset issue all together?

People agree on the importance of taking time backing down to get a proper set, then just "cross the fingers and hope" that a tide/wind shift will do the same thing later.

[Boblee]

Yes sometimes a "bahamian Moor" setup will be perfect and we have used it but much more often use the anchors set at 90 deg from the front in theory but in practice it could be more or less and maybe skewered to tide, the need to reset can be caused by many factors and am not surprised to find one or the other anchors have moved during the set.
A typical or theoretical b moor can see you exposed to strong currents or winds on the aft of the boat and depending on scope broadsided to same in practice but by anchoring from the bow you can utilise a bridal to face chop or swell which can change to direction of tide pull which can also change less or more than 180 deg, throw in a difficult bottom and you can end up with a tangle.
Every set has to be looked at individually unless all the possible variables are similar, an anchor that resets quickly and well (by itself) is IMHO the most important value.
By anchoring to either side of the bow you put ideally equal pressure on both anchors, in practice and with the mac dance it is rarely so but it does pin the mac a bit and has the advantage of allowing one anchor to drag slightly and reset once the other takes hold without getting way out of line, very good in strong, narrow tidal estuaries with variable bottoms, a bahamian moor is good where tide and wind is predictable and where it is imperative the rode is not moved with every change like a bad rocky bottom that can snare chain and rope when moved.
Some places we anchor can have 11m (36') tide movement although usually less and are just narrow streams it takes some thought sometimes plus plenty of vigilance.

[mastreb]

Also, I use and recommend a kellet. It keeps your chain on the seabed and prevents resetting even when an anchor is too light. I have a 7 lb. cheap ($20) galvanized grapnel that I send down the rode on a shackle once the anchor is set. It keeps the rode and chain on the bottom and has allowed my boat to handle substantial tides and a storm with 4' seas all night with no issues whatsoever using a fore and aft set pair of Fortress 11s.

They're a great addition to any anchor IMHO and have been used since ancient times to improve anchoring. Very easy to pull up as well since they don't "bite".

[Boblee]

Thats not a bad idea Mastreb as usually once an anchor pulls out especially in a big tide or wind the main reason it doesn't reset is it is held off the bottom by the speed of the boat, especially on a mac where it can just sail off and build up speed in a wind.
Like the look of the Deltas but the roll bars are on the Rocna's and Sarca's for a reason, would be good to try them out side by side under the same conditions.
When we first got our boat we went on a trip to the Whitsundays with 9 other macs, I was blown away by the variability of the anchors used and the variation in setting and holding, I only saw one anchor that went close to the Sarca but IMHO the Rocna is at least equal if not superior, unfortunately no one had a Rocna there.
Maybe if we have another trip there will be

[Wind Chime]

For those of us that have scotty down-riggers onboard for fishing, the 10 pound cannon ball weight works great as a kellet

by mastreb » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:33 pm

Also, I use and recommend a kellet. It keeps your chain on the seabed and prevents resetting even when an anchor is too light. I have a 7 lb. cheap ($20) galvanized grapnel that I send down the road on a shackle once the anchor is set. It keeps the rode and chain on the bottom and has allowed my boat to handle substantial tides and a storm with 4' seas all night with no issues whatsoever using a fore and aft set pair of Fortress 11s.

They're a great addition to any anchor IMHO and have been used since ancient times to improve anchoring. Very easy to pull up as well since they don't "bite".

[DaveB]

If you anchor in grass or rocks, you need a Plow or claw anchor. In sand or gravel you need a Danforth, or a fortress 11. Both types are best with 1/4 bbb chain of 30 ft.
70% of holding power is in your chain length. BBB chain is tested every link and has shorter links than Proof Coil chain.
I would reather rely on a Fortress 11 with 30 ft. of chain. Just so much easier to bring it up.
I use the Danforth 16 lb 95% of the time with the Fortress 11 as storm anchor.
I would use Fortress as prime anchor but does not fit in anchor well.
Without a Windlass, you need anchor and chain to do the job and easy to haul up.
The Anchor locker is a farce, I prefer a closed deck with anchor locker, with Auto release Anchor.
Dave

Thats not a bad idea Mastreb as usually once an anchor pulls out especially in a big tide or wind the main reason it doesn't reset is it is held off the bottom by the speed of the boat, especially on a mac where it can just sail off and build up speed in a wind.
Like the look of the Deltas but the roll bars are on the Rocna's and Sarca's for a reason, would be good to try them out side by side under the same conditions.
When we first got our boat we went on a trip to the Whitsundays with 9 other macs, I was blown away by the variability of the anchors used and the variation in setting and holding, I only saw one anchor that went close to the Sarca but IMHO the Rocna is at least equal if not superior, unfortunately no one had a Rocna there.
Maybe if we have another trip there will be

[Boblee]

Yeah you need that weight especially if only using one anchor and it drags then basically flies/glides above the bottom but I use 6m of 5/16 chain and it's getting pretty heavy to lift nowadays, especially when the anchor comes out of the water and the boat is rocking and rolling although always happy to see the anchor especially on a deep set with a strong tide or wind and two anchors out.
That bloody locker door is a real pain when bringing up the second anchor on that side.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

My 26X came with a couple of knockoff Danforths, truly both a POS. I have a 7# Fortress hanging from a pair of brackets from the rail. It works excellent on sandy bottoms, and has held overnight on 25 knot winds and 3' of chain (7:1 scope). I love the light weight, as I don't have a windlass, but just recently installed an anchor roller to handle a secondary, 25# Mantus, which I plan to hang on to the bow rails with a bracket or tube.
As I said, the Fortress works great on sand. Will hold on muck too but you need to readjust the bite angle. Forget about it if there's seaweed on top of the bottom, as this type of anchor gets easily fouled. For that we use the Mantus without the rollbar.

Oh, I dunno about that...depends on where you are anchoring. My 26X has a Guardian G11..which is a Aluminum Danforth knockoff and clearly much smaller than a lot of these anchors you guys are talking about. But the advantages are pretty clear, first it fits in the 26X anchor locker along with about 10 feet of chain an 150 foot of line or thereabouts...that is VERY convenient (I think I've read here that the Fortress F-11 does not quite fit in the locker). Secondly, I've owned my 26X for over 10 years and use it a lot...that means hundreds of anchorings and never a single drag incident, even with some pretty good overnight squalls coming up and blowing 30-50 for a bit. Granted, it will not set in grass as mentioned, but once set, it doesn't drag. And even in a large area of sea grass, I can always find a few "bald spots" where I target the anchor and it will set just fine there in the midst of the grasses. Most of my sailing is in Florida where it is sandy or muddy and the Danforth design is hard to beat. I've even had several boats rafted up to me before on a windy day with my puny little Danforth holding everyone at station without any slippage.

Now granted, that double anchor roller which Sumner built looks really sweet. Hey guy, you want some work on the Florida West Coast, maybe you can come over an build one on my mac some day Half serious there...although I suppose it renders the anchor locker space wasted? Maybe you could build me some custom 26X rail seats too although I suppose the rear pulpits are not engineered well enough for that and would probably need to be totally replaced.

[Seapup]

That bloody locker door is a real pain when bringing up the second anchor on that side.

Bringing two over the front is a mess. We keep one on the back and when its time to bring it up uncleat the front anchor and drift over the rear to bring it straight up. A bit easier since you are not perched on the bow with two rodes and anchors. The chain for it stays in the motor well, but the line remains permanently routed along the side and through the bow roller. That way its quick to drop and retrieve, but still have both through the bow roller.

Yeah you need that weight especially if only using one anchor and it drags then basically flies/glides above the bottom

One of our first times out well before the mac while we were still clueless we anchored for the night in the Atlantic ocean off the boardwalk in Va Beach to watch a concert. (hows that for ignorance???) Went to bed, tide shifted, we quietly broke loose and ended up with an abrupt launch from bed going through 4' breakers sideways onto the beach about 3 miles away.

The anchor skipped across the bottom for miles and never reset...once was enough to learn. Also learned how many people it takes to beach launch a west wight potter into the surf and why the keel lockdown bolts are sacrificial

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Nice cockpit flooring Seapup....I should build a stern anchor holder like you have done there since right now I just slide my stern Danforth knockoff into a fuel locker where it bangs around and deprives me of an additional 3 gallon tank stowage. It seems like you have some sort of tube that is screwed into the fiberglass, is that right? I had figured that the easiest thing would be just to hose clamp a small piece of pvc pipe onto one of the rear stanchions but what you have done puts the anchor lower down which is probably better.

[Boblee]

Bringing two over the front is a mess.

It can be and I really think I need to remove the mongrel lid and put a second roller on, I think the original one is still about here somewhere.
We divided the locker into two sections, one slightly smaller than the other, the larger for the Sarca and the smaller for a Danforth but now the Rocna lives in it, don't really have a problem pulling the port (Rocna) anchor until I get the chain and then for the last 6' which I pull around the lid and place the anchor in the locker.
Even when two anchors are deployed the lid won't shut and no hope when they are raised so the lid accomplishes very little except when on land travelling but the anchors are usually removed then and so ate chains so the ropes could be secured to stop them flying out and I might have less to sook about.
As for a stern anchor I prefer to have all that messy stuff up the front especially when on muddy bottoms, might look for that other roller today and see if the Rocna fits it but it's supposed to be another 43c (109f) so won't be out for long especially with the hot wind blowing not looking forward to accessing the bit under the rollers again either.

[DaveB]

Only time you need a Bahiman Moor is when you anchor in a 180 degree channel shift in tidal waters. If anchored for a overnight and one current change than both anchors should be at bow. Many times I was anchored in my 35ft. for week or more and lines twisted as boat can go any direction when current does a 180 degree.
I just powered around them till both were in line.
Don't think that is needed for a overnight or two days and maybe will turn in right direction, Happen to me a lot, all depends of current, wind and direction.
You don't anchor with a Bow anchor and a Stearn anchor, Keep both anchor rodes at the Bow.
Bahimian Moor also is used for tight anchorage site to restrict swing movement.
Dave

Bringing two over the front is a mess.

It can be and I really think I need to remove the mongrel lid and put a second roller on, I think the original one is still about here somewhere.
We divided the locker into two sections, one slightly smaller than the other, the larger for the Sarca and the smaller for a Danforth but now the Rocna lives in it, don't really have a problem pulling the port (Rocna) anchor until I get the chain and then for the last 6' which I pull around the lid and place the anchor in the locker.
Even when two anchors are deployed the lid won't shut and no hope when they are raised so the lid accomplishes very little except when on land travelling but the anchors are usually removed then and so ate chains so the ropes could be secured to stop them flying out and I might have less to sook about.
As for a stern anchor I prefer to have all that messy stuff up the front especially when on muddy bottoms, might look for that other roller today and see if the Rocna fits it but it's supposed to be another 43c (109f) so won't be out for long especially with the hot wind blowing not looking forward to accessing the bit under the rollers again either.

[Seapup]

Nice cockpit flooring Seapup....I should build a stern anchor holder like you have done there since right now I just slide my stern Danforth knockoff into a fuel locker where it bangs around and deprives me of an additional 3 gallon tank stowage. It seems like you have some sort of tube that is screwed into the fiberglass, is that right? I had figured that the easiest thing would be just to hose clamp a small piece of pvc pipe onto one of the rear stanchions but what you have done puts the anchor lower down which is probably better.

Thanks. We used a PVC pipe on the stern stanchion at first, but you have to lift it up chest high and lean out over the side to store it there, and it wanted to catch on things. Lower it is more out of the way and waist high so easy to drop into the pipe (section of the original aluminum mast through bolted to the hull )

Even when two anchors are deployed the lid won't shut and no hope when they are raised so the lid accomplishes very little except when on land travelling

Not understanding why it doesn't close when the anchors are deployed, just too much line or no notch for it to exit through?

We fit 35' chain, 200' 1/2" line and the remainder of the 150' 3/8" from the second anchor in the locker with lid closed.

Only time you need a Bahiman Moor is when you anchor in a 180 degree channel shift in tidal waters

...isn't most saltwater tidal and every tide a 180 from the previous?

Bahimian Moor also is used for tight anchorage site to restrict swing movement.

or mac dance

You don't anchor with a Bow anchor and a Stearn anchor, Keep both anchor rodes at the Bow.

...We just store the second anchor on the stern....the line still goes to the bow, both deployed and stored. The line always stays stretched along the side from the stern cleat to the bow cleat when not in use and then into the anchor/line locker. Its 26' less line to store every time since it stays along the side of the boat, and 26' less you have to drop back each tine to set the second anchor. Since it takes up cleats we added two more at both the bow and stern.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I hose clamped a 16.5 inch long piece of 3 inch PVC pipe to the starboard stanchion this afternoon...10 minute mod. I did take a look underneath and there didn't seem to be good access to the back of that area you have your tube installed at so I didn't have enough time to mess with it. A piece of old mast huh...I used to have one of those lying around myself but ended up taking it to a scrapyard and getting about 30 bucks for the Aluminum iirc. Figure I can try out the stanchion mounted tube for a while and if it is too high, I can redo a thru-hul bolt job some time in the future when I have some more time. I probably won't trailer with the anchor there though. I need to finish up a couple other little projects before I get to cleaning and provisioning the boat for the Key's cruise next week so I really shouldn't start any more new projects just now...good cruising season in Florida...