Leak in the cabin floor 1999x

[Declan]

In my 1999x there is water under the main floor between the kitchen and the dining table. This has weakened the floor and water sometimes came up through small cracks. After repairing each crack as it appeared, I have now put a layer of fiberglass on the floor. Water comes in to this area from the little hole in the middle under the stairs, after sailing in rough water, or after using it as a powerboat. There is nearly always water under the kitchen top and where the water is stored.I pump it out regularly.
I have read about leaks on this forum and tried a few possibilities that were suggested. I made sure the chainplate no longer leak. I made sure where the cable that goes out to the motor no longer leaks.And the steering rod.
I replaced the stopper inside the boat up front. It never overflowed there. None of the the plumbing outlets leak.
I put grease on the ballast water intake shutter. From what I read, that would seem to be the most likely cause. It really looks ok to me and I have gotten this water leaking up through the floor even after returning with an empty ballast and pumping out all excess water everywhere. It still came up through the floor a week later, when just moored with an empty ballast . Can it be that that shutter closes well enough to keep the ballast totally empty and yet leaves water in so it goes under the cabin floor?

[Seapup]

Sounds like you are off to a good start.

I would think step one would be to see if its water coming in from above (rain) or below, or possibly both.

If it leaked while moored with empty ballast and ballast was still empty it would point away from ballast tank issue (there was no water in it to leak into the cabin).

If there was no rain while moored than its not a rain issue (rain can get between the liner from a leaky rubrail, anchor locker, worn hatch slider, any hull hardware, windows, pedestal, and gas tank area where it bonds to the cockpit to name a few) and won't be visible till it reaches the bildge. So it would be good to eliminate all those if its not rain related.

None of the the plumbing outlets leak.

I would double check all 3 if its not rain related. If there is not a hole in the hull they are likely places for a leak. Maybe pressure test them. The one in the motor well is pretty well hidden and would drain into the center section. Normal leaks on the sides are trapped by the ballast tank ribs so water does not end up in the middle of the cabin unless it were quite a bit. So the leak may be closer to the centerline pointing to the motor well, rudder and motor mounts. Possibly centerboard bolt.

Moving fast can slap water up under the rubrail if there is damage under the rubber thats not readily visible.

[Catigale]

Check your compression pole for corrosion damage - this will let a lot of water into your boat.

[Herschel]

One thought that occurs to me that might help rule out where the water is coming from is to fill the ballast tank and put dye in the ballast tank. If the water that appears in the bilge is the color of the dye, it would be safe to assume that at least some of the water in the bilge is from the ballast tank. The PO of my 1998 26X installed two instruments (fathometer and log) through the ballast tank. He sealed the holes with PVC pipe and 5200, but over time the seals started to leak, and I had to reseal them with 5200. While sorting this out, I often found water in the cabin floor, if I had left the ballast tank full upon docking. It took the dye to confirm this, and, given the probably cause, what to do to fix it. I also developed a leak when motoring from a through hull valve and piping system that the PO had installed as an intake for the toilet flushing water and the blaster pump wash down system. I have learned to always keep this valve closed when motoring. If you are not the original owner, I would be looking for something unusual that he (or she) might have done to the boat that could be part of the problem. Also, somewhere on this discussion board someone discovered that the tube that drains the motor well to the stern had come loose in his boat, and the water going down the hole in the motor well was just going into the boat.

[Herschel]

An after thought:

If the water that appears in the bilge is the color of the dye, it would be safe to assume that at least some of the water in the bilge is from the ballast tank.

If the water in the bilge is ANOTHER color than the dye you put in the ballast tank, then that problem is way over my pay grade!

[Declan]

Thanks for the suggestions. It had rained when moored with ballast empty. I tasted the bilge water under the sink and it is not salty. I dont have a way of tasting the water underneath the main floor since I just fiberglassed it so its unlikely to ever leak up again from there.
I would like to pursue the idea of the compression pole. Looks like a pretty big hole above where the rope enters. That would leave in a lot of rain water. Could I just block it off with a rag when the boat is not in use? Will pluck up enough courage now to look at those bolts below.
Will take out the boat under power. Then that underneath water will flow into the main floor area and I can taste if its salty.

[Seapup]

I would like to pursue the idea of the compression pole. Looks like a pretty big hole above where the rope enters. That would leave in a lot of rain water. Could I just block it off with a rag when the boat is not in use? Will pluck up enough courage now to look at those bolts below.

The pole goes straight through to the centerboard underneath. There should be a little plexi cover that comes off to inspect where it goes through the cabin liner and connects to the centerboard trunk. Under the front dinette seat you can inspect the only centerboard bolt that goes through the hull.

If you remove the cover at the far back of the rear berth you can inspect the transom drain line, lower motor mounts and rudder bolts. I have heard spreading some flour (or similar powder) along the bilge walls will show where water is coming down if its rain water leaking from above. There is a recent post about fixing the drain in the motor well. http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/in ... ?view=1921

It sounds like you may have a rain problem and possibly a problem from water splashing when running at speed.

Also, you don't want to plug the hole in the floor liner itself. It was added in after a few model years on purpose. If the water is high enough in the bilges to rise over the ballast tank ribs and come through that hole there is enough weight to offset the boat and cause balance issues.

Keep us posted with what you find

[macr]

The motor well inlet leak matches your description and is an easy fix

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/modt/in ... ?view=1921

[Kittiwake]

In my 1999x there is water under the main floor between the kitchen and the dining table. This has weakened the floor and water sometimes came up through small cracks. After repairing each crack as it appeared, I have now put a layer of fiberglass on the floor. Water comes in to this area from the little hole in the middle under the stairs, ....

Unless I misunderstand, the fact that [the] water comes in through the little hole under the stairs is a key point.
To my knowledge, this means the water was probably never actually coming "up through small cracks [in the floor]", but rather coming in onto the top of the galley floor through the small hole put under the stairs deliberately by MacGregor to allow water in the aft bilge to appear in the main cabin. Mind you, we have a 26M; but I think the story is the same.
I also suspect that the "small cracks" in the cabin floor may be primarily fine gelcoat cracks that appear due to flexing of the thin floor and are primarily cosmetic rather than representing structural damage to the floor.
I like the suggestions others have made above.
Kittiwake

[jbgibbs99]

In my 2000x I also had the cracks in the floor when I got it - and leaks.

The floor is supported on what looks like several foam "rods" wrapped in fibreglass going from side to side. My guess is that the constant water under the floor made the supports flex too much, and the floor cracked and became spongy.

I fixed the many leaks and she's now dry. But the floor remains cracked and flexes a lot so I just put a laminate floor over the top - it covers the flex and looks better.

PS - one of the hardest leaks to track was the cleat by the winch - a bolt was loose and water was coming in and running down between the liner and the hull to the bilge.

[dlandersson]

On a 97 26X the little hole under the stairs is the vent hole for the ballast tank.

In my 1999x there is water under the main floor between the kitchen and the dining table. This has weakened the floor and water sometimes came up through small cracks. After repairing each crack as it appeared, I have now put a layer of fiberglass on the floor. Water comes in to this area from the little hole in the middle under the stairs, ....

Unless I misunderstand, the fact that [the] water comes in through the little hole under the stairs is a key point.
To my knowledge, this means the water was probably never actually coming "up through small cracks [in the floor]", but rather coming in onto the top of the galley floor through the small hole put under the stairs deliberately by MacGregor to allow water in the aft bilge to appear in the main cabin. Mind you, we have a 26M; but I think the story is the same.
I also suspect that the "small cracks" in the cabin floor may be primarily fine gelcoat cracks that appear due to flexing of the thin floor and are primarily cosmetic rather than representing structural damage to the floor.
I like the suggestions others have made above.
Kittiwake

[Declan]

'jbgibbs99 » wrote

'In my 2000x I also had the cracks in the floor when I got it - and leaks.

The floor is supported on what looks like several foam "rods" wrapped in fibreglass going from side to side. My guess is that the constant water under the floor made the supports flex too much, and the floor cracked and became spongy.

I fixed the many leaks and she's now dry. But the floor remains cracked and flexes a lot so I just put a laminate floor over the top - it covers the flex and looks better."

This is my situation also. For sure the water came up through the floor which was also cracked and spongy. Whenever I pushed on a crack some more water came out. As , like jbgibbs, I have put a new floor on top, I can no longer check if it was rain or sea water. My guess is it was rain.
I took out the boat under motor hoping that the water still underneath the floor would come out through the little hole that goes into the main floor . No water came in to the floor. I believe it is because I fixed a leak at the steering cable. I now believe that that had , in the past, caused the water to enter on top of the floor through the hole .
So the 'rain' water is still under the floor and the cause has not been discovered yet. I went through the suggestions from you all above. I opened where the center pole connects to the floor and tightened the bolts. It all seemed dry around there so I dont think that was the cause. Am working on the cleats now.I believe I have otherwise inspected and touched up about all I can and now wait on the next rainy day. I did pump out a little bilge water from under the sink. Water never got so high there that it went over that rib into the main floor underneath.
With the fiberglass covering of the main floor I will now be ok even if water continues to slosh around underneath and weaken the floor. I guess if I hear it slosh a lot I must consider boring a hole in the 'fiberglass' floor to get that water out .

[RobertB]

One thought that occurs to me that might help rule out where the water is coming from is to fill the ballast tank and put dye in the ballast tank. If the water that appears in the bilge is the color of the dye, it would be safe to assume that at least some of the water in the bilge is from the ballast tank. The PO of my 1998 26X installed two instruments (fathometer and log) through the ballast tank. He sealed the holes with PVC pipe and 5200, but over time the seals started to leak, and I had to reseal them with 5200. While sorting this out, I often found water in the cabin floor, if I had left the ballast tank full upon docking. It took the dye to confirm this, and, given the probably cause, what to do to fix it. I also developed a leak when motoring from a through hull valve and piping system that the PO had installed as an intake for the toilet flushing water and the blaster pump wash down system. I have learned to always keep this valve closed when motoring. If you are not the original owner, I would be looking for something unusual that he (or she) might have done to the boat that could be part of the problem. Also, somewhere on this discussion board someone discovered that the tube that drains the motor well to the stern had come loose in his boat, and the water going down the hole in the motor well was just going into the boat.

While practically and technically this sounds like a good idea, I would really love to see the reaction at the boat ramp when I drained my ballast tank full of dyed water Talk about teasing people that is your holding tank (Seahouse?), dye it green and say something like you had a reactor core breach

[Herschel]

Robert B wrote

I would really love to see the reaction at the boat ramp when I drained my ballast tank full of dyed water Talk about teasing people that is your holding tank (Seahouse?), dye it green and say something like you had a reactor core breach

Or you could use yellow die, back the boat over to a pylon, raise the starboard rudder, and tell the onlookers that your boat just needed to take a pee!

[Declan]

An update. Has not rained since I started this post so I have not been able to see if I have found the leak. I suppose the real test would be to take out the water that is still under the cabin floor. Can still hear it sloshing around down there. For that it seems I would have to bore a hole in the cabin floor and pump it out. Have been reluctant to do that . Perhaps it will do no further harm down there under the new fiberglass floor covering and perhaps new rain water will not overflow from there to anywhere else? Will wait and see how it is after heavy rain. I am in Spain. On the coast and the rain here stays mainly.... elsewhere.