Tow Vehicle: V-8 or V-6?

[dxg4848]

My new Tow Vehicle!

Toyota Tundra, V8, 5.7L, tow package, 10,000 lb towing capacity!

[mastreb]

Cruise America allows towing behind their RVs, which are E450s rated for #5000. I believe you can also tow with Home Depot delivery trucks, but I'm not positive about that.

[seahouse]

sirlandsalot wrote:
...it started to wobble side to side, it eventually passed the 4 runner, and flipped on it's side, pulling the 4 runner all the way onto it's roof.

Yipes! Pretty scary Sirlands! Glad no one was injured. Thanks for posting it.

There are lots of factors in play, but based on the description, I'll point out that this incident might NOT simply be a result of overloading the trailer. It could be a less than ideal load DISTRIBUTION on the trailer. As we know, for proper stability a recommended weight bias (of, say 10% +) needs to be maintained on the trailer tongue (at the hitch), so even slightly over loading the Boler with this in mind should preserve that ratio, and the original stability. Too low a tongue weight causes exactly the (ever-increasing, if not halted) scary oscillations described.

Note that this is in consideration of load placement in only one of THREE axes (in our 3-D world) of measurement (so it represents only the easiest to measure, and not necessarily the most important axis). Vertical and "secured" placement (better to keep the load low toward the floor if possible, IIRC, Bolers are tall) and lateral (left to right) are important for stability as well, but are more difficult to judge and measure.

Not at all meaning to imply that this was the case in this incident, but braking, and/or countering with the steering wheel (the common intuitive, reflexive response) makes the oscillation (the tail wags the dog) situation worse. Lifting off the accelerator and steering straight ahead, slowing until the sway stops (hopefully of course) is the proper reaction. The speed at which the sway stops will be well below the speed at which it started.

In modern, as-equiped vehicles, the trailer sway control programme takes over (within the laws of physics!) to prevent the sway from developing long before it gets out of hand and gives a warning. That feature is a no-compromise "must" on my next vehicle.

I've taken advanced driver education training ("skid school") and there is no shortage of courses available in the field, but I have not yet seen a skid school that dealt with (auto) trailers. I guess it's expected that we wait until we're actually in such a situation to figure out how to get out of it??? It's easy to practise backing a trailer on your own - but not so easy to do a donut with a trailer on the back !

Newer hitches are spring-loaded to decouple the ball socket from the vehicle under extreme force to reduce the transfer of roll from the trailer to the vehicle. I'm curious - did that happen in this case?

- Brian.

[dxg4848]

I believe you can also tow with Home Depot delivery trucks, but I'm not positive about that.

In our area Home Depot delivery trucks (trucks that you can rent) have trailer hitch receivers blocked with rods welded inside them.

[sirlandsalot]

Hi Brian..
you hit the nail on the head, I was not planning on going deeper into the subject, but now you bring it up...... absolutly, the biggest problem that contributed to that wreck aside from high center of gravity, an over weight, WAS exactly that, no weight on the tongue. My wife often moved things to the back because she liked to use the table in front for quick lunch stops. I tried to explain the loading procedure before along with the importance of it but, however she choose to ignore that when I was not there, the result was a wreck within 10 minutes of starting a 7 hour drive. I was working and they where all coming to meet me for the summer.

Proper loading therefore is a HUGE factor that is usually at the best of times a guesstimate. The trailer itself was also over weight and the soft 4x4 suspension of a toyota 4 runner didn't help. The trailer did have torsion bars, it did amaze me it all stayed hitched together throughout the entire wreck, twisting the tongue about 20 degrees from pulling the toyota onto the roof.

I do feel partially responsible asking my wife to pull that, I knew it was a full load at the best of time and she was new to towing. But I chose to go for it, as I am sure a lot of people here can relate too, the invincible attitude " what can possibly go wrong"

I just hope others can learn from my experience of almost loosing my entire family, writing my 4 runner clean off and destroying my camper trailer all do to ignorance combined with trailer hauling.

[WASP18]

It has nothing to do with your cylinders, it is what ever your GVWR is....and if you are driving around way over loaded, then you guessed right.

Yeah, I know what you mean about all you F150 and Ford FLEX and RAM2500 and Tundra guys running around overloaded are talking about - a menace on the roadways.

Only in America can they call a 1/2 ton rated vehicle a "truck". What a joke.

You see, in Germany a vehicle with less than a 3/4 ton rating is not even considered a truck, in Germany that's a car.

I use a Mercedes Sprinter van - the model 2500 - The 2500 is a 3/4 ton, and the Sprinter 3500 is a 1 ton with dual rears and a low axle. Mine is the 2500, (3/4 ton).
Unlike American and Japanese auto makers Mercedes does not even manufacture a 1/2 ton truck. Mercedes says a 1/2 ton rated anything in not a truck, that's a car.

They say if it's not 3/4 ton or more or it should not be called a truck.

My tow capacity? Don't really know - all I know is that when I came to the factory in the Sprinter to pick up 'boat' Mike Inmon said I could tow two MAC M boats at the same time. He has seen a lot of trucks tow MACs so I figure he knows what he's talking about.

(P.S. My BMW 740Li has a higher tow rating than your F150 truck)

I guess there's a truck size big and small available in the U.S. for most everyone. Not all utilitarian requirements are big and heavy. Also, many trucks in the U.S. are fashion statements, macho or modest. Some trucks work for a living while others are trophy trucks.

[BOAT]

i WAS NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT THE TRUCKS

I was not complaining about the trucks, nor do i myself personally see any problem at all towing a MAC with a F150, or a Honda CRV - there is no difference. (Darn near the same car).

I was just giving a hard time to the guy that thought his rig was so superior to everyone else because it was based on a Ford F150. (The Dodge Dakota mini-truck and the Chevy Astro Van had bigger rear springs than the Ford F-150 !) The Dakota will last a lot longer too. (I towed the A23 with a Dodge Dakota and that boat was 900 pounds HEAVIER than the MAC!)

Still, any of the mentioned vehicles will tow the MAC. I would prefer the Ford Econoline Series myself but any of their cars will do it. In the MAC flyers they use a Ford Taurus, (notorious for ripping up planetary gears under load).

That's why Roger designed a boat with water ballast in the first place!! If your buying a semi to tow it your wasting the benefit of getting water ballast in the first place!

I'm pretty sure any of your basic SUV cars will do. (There is nothing special about an F150, trust me, any Cadillac has more lifting capacity than a F150).

[RobertB]

Uhaul rentals will not allow you to tow anything behind their vehicles

Too much insurance risk according to the companies I have contacted

They cannot take the risk that you know what you are doing when it comes to towing something

From what I have witnessed.... it is definitely something that not all men can do

With one exception - I believe U-Haul will rent you a truck and a trailer, such as a car carrier with the understanding you will use one to tow the other.

[RobertB]

It has nothing to do with your cylinders, it is what ever your GVWR is....and if you are driving around way over loaded, then you guessed right.

Yeah, I know what you mean about all you F150 and Ford FLEX and RAM2500 and Tundra guys running around overloaded are talking about - a menace on the roadways.
Only in America can they call a 1/2 ton rated vehicle a "truck". What a joke.
You see, in Germany a vehicle with less than a 3/4 ton rating is not even considered a truck, in Germany that's a car.
I use a Mercedes Sprinter van - the model 2500 - The 2500 is a 3/4 ton, and the Sprinter 3500 is a 1 ton with dual rears and a low axle. Mine is the 2500, (3/4 ton).
Unlike American and Japanese auto makers Mercedes does not even manufacture a 1/2 ton truck. Mercedes says a 1/2 ton rated anything in not a truck, that's a car.
They say if it's not 3/4 ton or more or it should not be called a truck.
My tow capacity? Don't really know - all I know is that when I came to the factory in the Sprinter to pick up 'boat' Mike Inmon said I could tow two MAC M boats at the same time. He has seen a lot of trucks tow MACs so I figure he knows what he's talking about.
(P.S. My BMW 740Li has a higher tow rating than your F150 truck)

Are you serious? The F-150 is expressly designed to tow loads such as we tow with a fully loaded Actually comes with the hitch, harness, transmission modes, cooler and temperature gauge, and stability algorithms to control sway. Suggest you refrain from stating in a public forum I am driving a dangerously overloaded vehicle . Also suggest you investigate the differences between the USA and Europe in how vehicles are rated for towing. For example, the Europeans consider a 5% tongue rate appropriate - here it is 10%.

And why should we care what the Germans consider a truck? After owning a 2004 VW Beetle for years now, I really never want to experience German engineering again - they design things to fail in the most interesting manner. That car has been so persistent in coming up with interesting to diagnose failure modes, I have toyed with the idea of finding a priest to exorcise the car. On the other hand, I am so impressed with Volvo, I bought a second.

Oh, and Mike Inmon also stated any regular family sedan could tow the boat. Yeah, right - and one transmission later....

[BOAT]

I have had a LOT of Volvos - the old 240 is the best, but I have had the 7 series too - a wagon and a sedan. The cars are indestructible.

I like the Ford F150 just fine - It's a great car - the F150 in a 1/2 ton configuration is still not any more beefy than a lot of passenger cars and light trucks, but it's a great truck. I just do not see that truck in the 1/2 ton configuration as "superior" to a lot of other vehicles for towing. The rear springs are no wider than the springs on the Dakota and a lot of SUV cars. It's a fine truck, WAY better than the old Toyota Mini Trucks with their little leaf springs that break.

I myself prefer the econoline trucks, but the F150 is just fine.

As for German trucks I don't find them superior to American trucks. It's just that the German trucks are ALWAYS heavy duty, (Unimog, Sprinter, etc) they don't have 'light duty' trucks.

"Light Duty" trucks are not much different than a full size passenger car - the fact that the Flex sits on a F150 chassis sort of drives that point home.

Station Wagons and Suburbans and many SUVs (Hummer, ect) have WAY more beef under the floor than a F150. Just stating facts, that's all.

[RobertB]

I am not sure the last time you were under a Ford truck, but I have both a new F-150 and an older Lincoln TownCar - one of the few cars you can realistically compare to since I do not know of a single car or really any of the current SUVs that are built on an independent frame. I can attest that the truck chassis is MUCH heavier duty. I really do not understand how you can rate it light duty for this application.

I understand your desire to tow with a tank, I imagine I could talk my brother in law into towing my boat with his F-350 or ever his F-750. Neither would necessarily tow the boat any better because the boat is well within the design capacity of the truck. I choose my vehicles carefully since I tend to keep them a long time - I cannot claim to have owned a lot of anything. In 26 years I have only had two vehicles I drive regularly (my 1987 Plymouth Voyager lasted 26 years and over 265,000 miles). I purchased the F150 after careful consideration of my needs and its capabilities and consider it way more heavy duty than and current cars on the market.

[Hamin' X]

... - the fact that the Flex sits on a F150 chassis sort of drives that point home...

Interesting! I didn't realize that the F-150 was front wheel drive, with a transverse mounted engine.

~Rich

[BOAT]

Talk to the guy going on about how great the flex is in the previous post - he's the one that says the Flex is built on the F150, not me.

As for towing with a tank I agree that it's all way more care than the MAC m needs (all the 3/4 ton heavy metal you mentioned) - I agree. My Sprinter is a 2004 and my MAC is a 2013, so you can guess which one came first.

[Catigale]

Uhaul rentals will not allow you to tow anything behind their vehicles

Too much insurance risk according to the companies I have contacted

They cannot take the risk that you know what you are doing when it comes to towing something

From what I have witnessed.... it is definitely something that not all men can do

With one exception - I believe U-Haul will rent you a truck and a trailer, such as a car carrier with the understanding you will use one to tow the other.

Uhaul will let you tow our own vehicle behind a truck.

[MacTommy]

The American CRV has a max tow capacity of 680kg. Wouldn't do it with the US branded CRV.

That is very interesting. The European sold CR-V's are produced in GB, actually Swindon, I think. But the CR-V should pretty much be the same everywhere around the world, unlike the Accord that I know for sure will vary depending on built in Japan, USA or Europe.

I think the difference is not in the vehicle, but in the towbar itself. I have seen some ridicolous american-built towbars for sale on ebay from time to time, also claimed to fit on the CR-V. Look like something I would not dare to even mount a Bicycle rack on to. Do you guys really tow With those things? I find that hilarious, really.



http://www.catalogue.bosal.com/pages/to ... &year=2008

Here you can see in catalogue from Bosal, well known supplier, that the CR-V are approved for 2000kg trailerweight and 100kg ballweight. I think you guys need to start ordering Your towbars from Europe, really.