Newbie decisions questions....

[jasonsjwou]

Hello everyone! Greetings!!

Recently I've got bitten by the "Boat Bug".... I need some help on deciding what to get for my first boat.

I know my first boat may/maynot be my last boat, and I'm open for any suggestions from experienced people.

Here's my introduction (i.e., what I have). I hope these can give experience boaters little more idea on where I'm coming from. I've posted the same question on another website, but I want to hear from MacGregor crowd for their honest assessment.

- I live in central Indiana, 13 Hours from FL Pan handle, 10 Hours from Chesapeke bay, 3 hours from Lake Michigan. (Well, I'm 30 minutes from fairly large local lakes such as Geist & Eagle Creek reservoirs)

- I am far from being rich, and I am cheap & frugal. I'm extremely avid Ebayer/Craiglist junkie. I don't have a hard "ceiling" in terms of money, but can probably dispense ~$2K per year for the boat ownership "Experience" - i.e., if I buy a boat for $15k, use it for 2-3 years and sell it for $12k, (plus storage, reg. insurance, fuel, repairs etc) then I can justify the spending. No I can't & won't spend $32k for a new 26M. I'd probably have to limit the purchase price to right around $10-15k line.

- Faimily of 4, with two growing children and a dog.

- I am a mechanical engineer, working in Automotive industry. I'm good with auto repairs - I can DIY a lot more than oil & filter changes.

- I am capable of machining - Mills and Lathe - and welding, and have access to a well-equipped machine shop.

- I have a hitch-equipped GMC Savana 1500 conversion van, which can tow 7000 pounds.

- I've rented pontoon boats numerous times, and sailed little hobie cat few times.


And here's what I'm looking to do with my boat.

- Go on a day trip excursions to local waters (Must be trailerable)

- Trailer the boat to DC, Chicago, Cleveland, and Michigan and play *nautical life*

- Camping in the boat (1 or 2 nights max - Don't need Galley but need toilet & berth)

- Occasionally pull wakeboard & tubes (not a Must, but it'd be nice)

- Swim/snorkle from the boat (lake/seashore - there's something about jumping into water from the boat!)

- Occasionally take another family out to the water. I'd like to able to take 7-8 passengers, most likely 4 adults @150-200 lbs and 3-4 kids @50-100 lbs.

- Trailer the boat to Miami, then cross the gulfstream to Bahamas (This would be my ultimate dream, with this boat or not. If I can achieve this, I'll have no more nautical desires for rest of my life)


I've done quite a bit of reading, and looked into a lot of boats - from 20' Bayliner bowriders & 24' cuddy cabins, to 25' swing keel Catalinas to MacGregor 26X/M.


There are plenty of recent-ish ~20' cuddy cabins for under $10k. There are also few MacGregor 26 for around $15k. on the lower end, there are plenty of older <20' bowriders and Catalina 22' for $5k.

I like sailing, but not a orthodox die-hard fan. I've rented HobieCat catamarans and there's something special about cruising under wind power - feels great I agree. I also want to take another family out, and occasionally pull wakeboards. I have no desire for 30MPH+ speed, but like to be fuel efficient. At first, MacGregor 26X/M seemd a good fit, but they are more expensive than smaller cuddy cabins boats.

I tried to look for boat rentals. Most affordable rentals are slow pontoons (I've done plenty of that, and that's not what I want), and charters cost hundreds of $$$ per hour. I'd love to try one out for a day or so, but looks like that won't be possible.

I like to hear some thoughts from people who's been in my shoes.

Thank you for reading such a long-winded post. God bless everyone.

[DaveB]

So what do you want to ask us, other than being in your shoes?
Dave

Hello everyone! Greetings!!

Recently I've got bitten by the "Boat Bug".... I need some help on deciding what to get for my first boat.

I know my first boat may/maynot be my last boat, and I'm open for any suggestions from experienced people.

Here's my introduction (i.e., what I have). I hope these can give experience boaters little more idea on where I'm coming from. I've posted the same question on another website, but I want to hear from MacGregor crowd for their honest assessment.

- I live in central Indiana, 13 Hours from FL Pan handle, 10 Hours from Chesapeke bay, 3 hours from Lake Michigan. (Well, I'm 30 minutes from fairly large local lakes such as Geist & Eagle Creek reservoirs)

- I am far from being rich, and I am cheap & frugal. I'm extremely avid Ebayer/Craiglist junkie. I don't have a hard "ceiling" in terms of money, but can probably dispense ~$2K per year for the boat ownership "Experience" - i.e., if I buy a boat for $15k, use it for 2-3 years and sell it for $12k, (plus storage, reg. insurance, fuel, repairs etc) then I can justify the spending. No I can't & won't spend $32k for a new 26M. I'd probably have to limit the purchase price to right around $10-15k line.

- Faimily of 4, with two growing children and a dog.

- I am a mechanical engineer, working in Automotive industry. I'm good with auto repairs - I can DIY a lot more than oil & filter changes.

- I am capable of machining - Mills and Lathe - and welding, and have access to a well-equipped machine shop.

- I have a hitch-equipped GMC Savana 1500 conversion van, which can tow 7000 pounds.

- I've rented pontoon boats numerous times, and sailed little hobie cat few times.


And here's what I'm looking to do with my boat.

- Go on a day trip excursions to local waters (Must be trailerable)

- Trailer the boat to DC, Chicago, Cleveland, and Michigan and play *nautical life*

- Camping in the boat (1 or 2 nights max - Don't need Galley but need toilet & berth)

- Occasionally pull wakeboard & tubes (not a Must, but it'd be nice)

- Swim/snorkle from the boat (lake/seashore - there's something about jumping into water from the boat!)

- Occasionally take another family out to the water. I'd like to able to take 7-8 passengers, most likely 4 adults @150-200 lbs and 3-4 kids @50-100 lbs.

- Trailer the boat to Miami, then cross the gulfstream to Bahamas (This would be my ultimate dream, with this boat or not. If I can achieve this, I'll have no more nautical desires for rest of my life)


I've done quite a bit of reading, and looked into a lot of boats - from 20' Bayliner bowriders & 24' cuddy cabins, to 25' swing keel Catalinas to MacGregor 26X/M.


There are plenty of recent-ish ~20' cuddy cabins for under $10k. There are also few MacGregor 26 for around $15k. on the lower end, there are plenty of older <20' bowriders and Catalina 22' for $5k.

I like sailing, but not a orthodox die-hard fan. I've rented HobieCat catamarans and there's something special about cruising under wind power - feels great I agree. I also want to take another family out, and occasionally pull wakeboards. I have no desire for 30MPH+ speed, but like to be fuel efficient. At first, MacGregor 26X/M seemd a good fit, but they are more expensive than smaller cuddy cabins boats.

I tried to look for boat rentals. Most affordable rentals are slow pontoons (I've done plenty of that, and that's not what I want), and charters cost hundreds of $$$ per hour. I'd love to try one out for a day or so, but looks like that won't be possible.

I like to hear some thoughts from people who's been in my shoes.

Thank you for reading such a long-winded post. God bless everyone.

[captronr]

Once you decide on a boat, you will get the most time on it when it is CLOSE to where you live. Our X is 4 hrs away (heading there tomorrow--YEAH!). Boats require a lot of maintenance, and if its not close to you, it's harder to get it done. X's and M's aren't speedy to rig, so it's a challenge (for me anyway) to tow it to a lake, launch it, sail for a few hours, then derig, and pull it home. I seldom seldom do it--just not worth it to me.

I would like to sail the coasts too, but I need LOTS more experience on flat water before I get into salt water.

Keep in mind also if you want to SAIL a boat or WORK on a boat. More $$$ can get you on the water more and quicker.

Have fun,
Ron

[dlandersson]

You are welcome to come up and look at a Mac 26X (or several) here on the southern side of Lake Michigan.

If you want trailerable, with beds, potty, and occasionally pull a tube, then your choices are rapidly closing down to a Mac 26X or M. Just sayn'

The M sails better than the X - OTOH, many prefer the X's layout - and they are often a tad cheaper.

Your load of 4 adults and 4 kids is close to the max load for either one.

Max 26X/M owners have gone to the Bahamas many times - in fact, their potential speed is a plus for this. Scoot across, then sail.

Note that there is an "opportunity cost" re: time. Any boat you look at - the owner has to be free. Sep/Oct is when many owners start to put their boats up.

[Tomfoolery]

And don't forget the .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08R_-0dbFVM

[dlandersson]

I thought about the Mac19 - but I did not think it had a potty, nor room for 4 + 4 people.

And don't forget the .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08R_-0dbFVM

[WASP18]

You're off to a good start by reading and researching everything. All MacGregor boats are unique. I consider them "amphibians". Sounds like a 50HP equipped Mac X would be a fit based on your boating profile and budget. Eight people is more than a crowd on these boats. The cockpit on the X is slightly larger than the M. Perhaps a good outing with your family and friends would be to find a dock near a beach. You could give rides and offer water skiing off the dock while your group enjoys the nearby beach. You can also beach the MacGregor in soft sand, bow first while at the beach.

During my search, I was surprised to find Macs for sale in the Midwest. With your mechanical skills, a trailer can be refurbished if needed. Plenty of trailer parts on the Web. Off season, in the fall, check the ads and be aggressive if you make an offer. It's truly a buyer's market out there for sailboats. Although Macs can sell fairly quickly, it's a matter of competing with another buyer. I made two separate (aggressive) offers. The first was received as an insult and upset the owner. I had to calm her down and asked her not to take it personally by reminding her that it's the marketplace. The second aggressive offer was accepted immediately. This was for a 2000 X. Asking price was $18,500, I offered 12.5. Boat was in excellent condition, trailer was in real good condition with some work needed ($700). Afterwards, I wondered if I should have offered 10.5K.

[Russ]

I think you are on the right track with the Mac. Inexpensive boat, lots of fun and room for a family. There are few if any trailerable boats with this claim.

Whatever you think it will cost to operate, double it and your budget will be fine.

--Russ

[Gazmn]

I like to hear some thoughts from people who's been in my shoes.

We're all in your shoes Bro; That's why we're here

Many of us trailer to various places one time or another. I've done NY - Florida twice. It can be arduous but no regrets. I've yet to do the gulf stream jump. Was sort of a dream but I've been begging off lately. You need LOTS of time for the right weather window.

IMO: Look for a used or with as many upgrades done already; you can remod later. A tandem axle trailer was a must for me - & i've still put in lots of time redoing to disc brakes, new bunks etc

It's great if yu have a setup where you can keep your boat at or nearby your house. You will be working/ modding it. At every oportune time

You will work, but you said you're handy. Read the experiences that some of us have enjoyed like Chinook's log just to name one - Although there are many...

Jump in - the water's fine

[paul I]

Jason,

A Mac, either or will suit your needs well. Wasp has outlined the difference between the two fairly well, Though I think on the point of initial cost, the will be your best bet.

A few comments:

7 to 8 people aboard a Mac (or basically any other trailerable boat under 30 feet long) will be very crowded. Depending on the weight involved it my even surpass the safe maximum capacity of the boat. And if you ever do go out with such a crowd, be sure to buy or borrow enough properly fitting lifejackets.

The Macs are the boat worlds equivalent of a blank canvas when new. The base model is bare bones and each seems to get customized based on the needs and wants of the owner. A flush toilet and holding tank may be important to you, where as a simple porta potty will be more than sufficient for my needs. Some want a fully equipped galley, others get by with a hotplate. Plan on customizing based on your needs and be prepared to either live with or change any mods a previous owner may have installed. They are very DIY friendly (take a peek at the mods section of this site) and there is a large aftermarket of custom accessories that can be had since it is a very popular line of boats (take a look at what you can buy from Blue Water Yachts).

With respect to the you are served best by choosing a boat which is a 2000 or newer. Several important changes in design were finalized in that year. Also, focus as much on the condition of the outboard as you do on the condition of the boat as you look. Replacing a 50HP outboard is an expensive proposition, and even getting them serviced can cost a fortune. Make sure there is an authorized repair facility for the outboard brand near you. I have a Honda and there is only 1 local dealer to choose from where I live. Basically, he is the only game in town and no other dealer in the area wants to touch it (and I am part of a fairly large boating community in Buffalo NY.).

Also for your situation, you will want to pay close attention to the trailer and eventually replace it with something sturdier or modify the factory one. I typically only use mine twice a year... to and from its marina berth. Of course leaving it in all season requires a bottom job with barrier paint be done. These are the kinds of things you need to consider.

The Macs are relatively safe boats. The are built inexpensively, but they are built well where they need to be. There just aren't many frills. They have built in flotation so they wont sink completely, and as long as the ballast system is full, they have great righting momentum. On the other hand they are significantly more prone to heel than fixed keel sailboats. This is probably going to scare the hull out of you and the wife and traumatize the kids the first time you get a good gust. When I was boat shopping, more than one newbie owner cited this as a reason for selling.

Look for boats on craigslist, ebay and classifieds on boating sites. There is another site called MacgregorOwners.com that often lists boats for sale as well. Lots of accessories for sale there too. You may need to travel quite a distance to buy the boat you want. You can do a national craigslist search (google it).

For comparison shopping I purchased my 2000 for $12,000 three years ago near Pittsburgh. It came with a Honda BP50, standard trailer, bimini, furler, genoa, jib, spinnaker, VHF, and (get this) cassette deck. No shore power, no dual battery, no chart plotter, no galley appliances. But the fiberglass and outboard were immaculate and that was important to me. I knew I could (and did) add all the rest of the stuff I wanted. I enjoy working on the boat in the off season almost as much as I like sailing it. I like being able to store it right behind the house. it makes doing work on it so much easier.

I Hope this helps. Good luck with the search. Let us know how it turns out.

[JohnCFI]

I have to agree that 8 people is a bit too much. We had six adults on once, and it worried me so much I returned to shore early!!

nowadays we stick to a max of 4 Adults or 2 adults and 4 kids (if they are not too big).

It is also essential that you have sufficient working lifejackets for everyone on board.
and if you are on your own, or even a short distance offshore, a liferaft with enough space for everyone.

It would be a good idea to do at least a basic boating course with a good training organisation..

Wish you fair winds and happy sailing

[island808]

As a new x owner, i dont find it well suited for this tube or knee boarding people talk about. It is not nimble, has poor visibility and entry and exit on the water is at least difficult. Never mind lack of a tie off point (which can be remedied)

Mine will do an easy 17 knots in fair water and wind with an efi suzuki 50 and 14 pitch(?) prop. Not to mention it'll do about 6 hours of mixed speeds (2/3 5-6 knots and some full speed runs) on 5 gallons of gas, and at idle it cannot be heard over the lightest wind.

[The-strikes]

1st let me say, I couldn't be happier with my X which I've had now for 6 years. My kids have skied and tubed off it for countless hours,we live on it for up to a week at a time and have trailered to other locations. I've learned much about sailing that I plan to transfer to a bigger boat when my kids get out of college and I retire. My boat lives on the trailer at a Marina (mast up) so I don't have to set it up and take it down each time.

Having previously been a power boater, here's my thoughts:

My kids have no interest in sailing. They want to tube and ski. I do very little sailing from July 1 to Labor day unless I leave them home or the wind is blowing hard in the direction we want to go.

If I had to trailer to my destination with kids, the setup (although fairly quick) and take down each day would be annoying UNLESS you plan to be there for more than 1 day. It is not good for day trips if you want to sit in the sun or tube, and remember that sometimes there is no wind even though it's forecast. With a power boat on a trailer, you put it in and go.

That said, the X is a great bargain and excellent hybrid. Sailing is fun. Tubing is fun for the kids but you will be doing it all day because you can't turn sharp enough to flip the kids off the tube and end the ride.

What ever you get, enjoy, and get one with a head.

[vkmaynard]

As a new x owner, i dont find it well suited for this tube or knee boarding people talk about. It is not nimble, has poor visibility and entry and exit on the water is at least difficult. Never mind lack of a tie off point (which can be remedied).

Do you have a grab handle on the inside of the stern? We added one a long time previous. Big help with the wakeboarders.

You do have to standup to drive. With a 90 it is plenty nimble and you can launch towed objects.

Victor

[mastreb]

The X and M can do 4 adults and 4 kids, as long as people know that they must go for to aft through the cabin rather than topside, and the kids spend their time mostly in the cabin or on the bow, AND the ballast must be in, which will reduce your top speed under power by 2..3 knots. We do this all the time. Kids usually don't care to be in the cockpit with the adults, and spreading the weight throughout the boat works better than having everyone in the cockpit.

Either the X or M will do fine for your needs--however, for day trips where you are putting in, playing around, and then pulling out in the same day and then going home, I recommend leaving the mast and rigging at home and just going out to the lake under power, using the boat as a cabin cruiser, and then rigging for sail when you do trips. Given this, you may be able to get more boat bought with missing or damaged sails and then fix the sail situation later.

Matt