Plant Shuttered, Doors Closed.

[Russ]

I hope - I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop - how long do you think they will let fiberglass get used in Florida?? It's just a matter of time before they start going after them there too.

I think they will build a few boats.

[BOAT]

I know its sad to see MAC close up, but VOC regs have had a huge impact on the lives of people in LA and area. If you were around LA in the 70s and remember the air quality back then....

Yes - you hit the nail on the head - this is really about Los Angeles, not California. Most people outside of California don't know that:

I'm a native of Los Angeles. I was there in the 70's. It was the filth in LA that brought all the regulations to California. That's how it works - One town gets dirty, and the state legislators fix it by passing laws that apply to the entire state. I'm not saying it's wrong - I'm just saying it is what it is. Believe it or not back in the late 50's we burned our trash in incinerators in our back yards in the suburbs, now - you must understand there was a huge thriving smokestack industry community in LA then, (still is), in 58 they started the 'no burn' days for out incinerators claiming that would solve the air pollution problem. (!) You see? The smoke stacks of all the airplane plants and refineries and every other kind of big polluter was untouchable because of MONEY, so who did they go after? The little guy - that's how it works. So they took away our incinerators, put tax assessments on us for 'waste removal, and then a year later made us pay for trash pickup! (Double tax).

Did the pollution go away?

Do you really think Stuart Florida is all that much farther away from Miami than Placentia was from Los Angeles?? The differenc is like what, 90 miles??

Miami IS Los Angeles!

I sure remember the first time I drove in on the 95 - yeah - this is definatly Los Angeles on the east coast - that's all I could think. As a native of LA all I saw were the same freeways, same buildings, same filth, same traffic, same people, totally like being back in LA. And you don't think the same VOC regulations in California are not coming to Florida?? (Your fooling yourself).

Roger MacGregor is a pretty smart guy - as I have said before - If Roger MacGregor and Alter Hobie are giving up on fiberglass - you can be sure fiberglass is dead. There is no future in it. I already mentioned that back in the 90's Hobie started moving away from fiberglass and going to "rotomolding". The guys at Hobie told me back then that all this would happen that we are seeing now - I'm sure Roger was aware of it too - especially since Roger knew the guys too.

Please don't get mad at me guys, you gotta understand I live right here where all those guys are - I ride the coaster train with all those guys that used to own the shaper shops in Carlsbad and Encinitas, Don Hansen the surfboard guy is sort of close to me - and I have a real good read on what the future is not because I'm smart but because I have worked with a lot of these guys setting up their factories for electric and lighting and they have told me many things. My family connections got me into all the local glass factories when they were looking for an electrical engineering to help them expand. I have seen all of them grow and shrink - it's the rise and fall of an industry. They have told me many things. Trust me - fiberglass is dead.

Detroit comes to mind.

The real story of Tattoo Yachts is epoxy and composites, not fiberglass. And if the kids can't figure out a way to make it affordable, (trust me- it's not), then your kids will need to pony up a LOT more money for a LOT less boat in the future - I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I hate to see people fooling themselves.

Enjoy your boats (your AFFORDABLE boats) - because they very well may be the last! My info from the street says that if a new material is not found by 2020 the cheapest trailerable sailboat available would probably be well over 100 thousand dollars in today's money. It's like cheap gasoline - it's never coming back.

[dlandersson]

Isn't fiberglass still available?

[Russ]

I sure remember the first time I drove in on the 95 - yeah - this is definatly Los Angeles on the east coast - that's all I could think. As a native of LA all I saw were the same freeways, same buildings, same filth, same traffic, same people, totally like being back in LA. And you don't think the same VOC regulations in California are not coming to Florida??

I can always tell a Californian when they preface an Interstate name by "the" as in "on the 95". In the east we simply call it "I-95"

Can't compare LA to Miami air quality. The prevailing winds blow junk East off the coast of Florida. Also, unlike LA, it rains in Florida (a lot) thereby "scrubbing" the air. LA is in a valley where smog has no place to go. Totally different climates. Air quality is a serious issue in the valley.
Also, without getting too political, I will simply say the political climate is much different in Florida than California.
There are so many boat builders in Florida (Hunter etc.) that it would impact the economy too much. Remember the yacht tax in 1990 that brought the boat building industry to a screeching halt in this country? Destroyed the industry, lots of secondary victims. People were taking delivery of their boats 12 miles offshore to beat the tax. It was a big blunder that was repealed 3 years later.

Until Miami skies look like LA in the 70s, I don't think we will see any VOC regs in that state.

It was brilliant for the Junior Macgregor to move to Florida. Now if they can get past that name I think they will have a winner.

[Wayne nicol]

i am very sad to say i got a lot of attitude from them when trying to talk to them about buying a tattoo earlier this year.
i was very surprised - i thought all mac people were like you guys on this forum, they were kinda behaving like snobby yachties.
so much so i did not order one from them- and went and bought a "new" m- new from the dealer- but it was still a 2012 model- but just what i had to do to get a boat.

but i do wish them the best for the future- and hope they keep the good boats pumping outta there.

reading back on this thread- i saw people talking about de laminating etc. cant comment on that, but i do know that port side of the mast on my boat, if i stand there the fiberglass makes a crackling noise- like maybe there is too much flex in it, not thick enough of a layup!!!!.- i only weigh 180 lbs- (all muscle and sinew )
but other than that i am very happy with the boat- it is what it is!!

[raycarlson]

Someone is really trippin man. I agree L.A. CA. is nothing like Miami other then they both have an ocean and even the oceans are nothing alike. Fiberglass will be around for many more decades. Possibily companies will need to invest in air filtration but it certainly is not on its death bed, except maybe in LA where small shops cant afford capitol costs to safely handle the resin be it polyester or epoxy its still FG.

[WASP18]

In the Northeast, we call it Route 95.

Miami is high humidity and tropical. LA is a dry desert climate. Miami is flat, LA is hilly and mountainous. And as mentioned previously, Miami's weather cleans the air.

[dlandersson]

This is the difference between Miami and LA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RHBOfM9CFQ

In the Northeast, we call it Route 95.

Miami is high humidity and tropical. LA is a dry desert climate. Miami is flat, LA is hilly and mountainous. And as mentioned previously, Miami's weather cleans the air.

[BOAT]

Sure looks like LA to me:

[dlandersson]

Or Indy, or Austin, or Cincinnati, etc.

Sure looks like LA to me:

[BOAT]

That's my point - they look the same to me! Buena Park or Miami???



Miami or Los Angeles????



I dunno - it sure looks the same as LA to me -

[Russ]

I agree, the highways look similar. But we're talking air quality here. Pollution seems to be trapped in the San Joaquin Valley. I've always thought the word Smog was invented in LA. I've never heard the term used in Florida. There it's just hazy/hot/humid.
If you look at the most polluted cities map, California leads the pack and Florida has none.
http://www.stateoftheair.org/2011/city- ... QgodjlYAcQ
So you can see why this is a serious issue in the Golden State.

Fiberglass may be dead in California, but not the rest of the country. Tattoos will be made of cheap glass for a while keeping these affordable boats available for sale. Can't wait to see one for real.

[Russ]

Here's a common view from a Florida highway you won't often see in LA. Do they even have wipers on cars in LA?

[BOAT]

Yes, and floods too - Do you people really think that all of California (even all of Southern California) really looks like LA?

[Russ]

Do you people really think that all of California (even all of Southern California) really looks like LA?

Of course not. Nor does all of Florida all look like Miami.
What were we discussing? Oh yea, the reason for CA VOC regs and Macgregor closing their doors and Tattoo opening theirs.
Fiberglass isn't going away soon except in places where it should.