Hull ID Codes & Macgregor Sail Stats

[Frank C]

Herman Wadler is owner of a Venture 2-24 in Northern Calif. Herm has
a whole series of Macgregor Info pages (sail stats) on his website.

Following is quoted from his Hull ID page posted on his website (thanks, HW).

How to Read the Hull ID Number (HIN)

These two tables will help you determine the model and year of your MacGregor or Venture. There was no Federal requirement for Hull Identification Numbers (HIN) prior to 1973. All Ventures and MacGregors built during and after 1973 will have a HIN placed on the upper Starboard side of the transom.

The format after 1980 (per Macgregor)... mmm h ssss dd yy ... Where:

mmm = Manufacturer US Identification Code
h = Model description (see Production Years - HIN Designation.)
ssss = Hull Serial Number
dd = Date of Manufacture -
.............. Where A to L = Month starting with January
.............. and then the last digit of the year.
yy = Model Year

Example:
mmmhssssddyy - Example: MACX0854A898
MAC X0854 A8 98
MAC, 26X, Serial number 0854,
manufactured in Jan, 1998, Model Year 1998

EDIT: Model year changes on July 1 each year (i.e. G899).

Reference: U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary Boating Skills & Seamanship, 11th Edition, pages 2-2 and 2-3 and MacGregor Yacht Corp.

CAREFUL: Boats built prior to 1980 use a completely different code, shown on Herman's webpage.

(EDITED: and now shown below, too). While HIN structures are similar, Macgregor's pre-80 dating codes are completely different. Date sequencing differs and the letter codes begin with A=August, not A=January.

Prior to 1980 (for Macgregor) the 9th digit was a M followed by a the year and month. NOTE CAREFULLY: the dating codes are completely different.

mmmsssssmddy
mmm = Manufacturer US Identification Code
sssss = Hull Serial Number
m = Indicates year format
dd = Year of production
y = Month of production with A = August, B = September, etc. ...
.....Aug = A.....Sep = B.....Oct = C.....Nov = D
.....Dec = E.....Jan = F......Feb = G....Mar = H
.....Apr = I......May = J.....Jun = K......Jul = L

Example:
mmmsssssmddy - Example: MAC00432M72E
MAC 00432 M72 E
MAC, boat number 00432, manufactured in 1972, December

[Red Coat]

"CAREFUL: Boats built prior to 1980 use a completely different code, shown on Herman's webpage"

This comment is incorrect.

As a boat theft specialist I lecture on this topic regulary.

HIN's (hull identification numbers) came into exisitence in the USA in 1972 with a two year phase in period. As of 1974 all pleasure craft built in the US or imported to the US were required to have a HIN. Initially a standard HIN format could not be agreed upon (it is rumoured that the USCG and DOT couldn't agree on format, go figure, two government agencies not agreeing) so there were two different formats in use until 1984 when the HIN format was standardized to what we now have.

Prior to 1984 there was the "model format" and the "straight number format".

The basic design of the HIN has been consistent (3 character manufacturer ID, 5 character production number, 4 character date of manufacture). The difference has allways been in the last four characters in the HIN which are used to designate when the boat was built and its model year.

The "Model format" had the letter "M" in the ninth character followed by a two digit model year and the last character was a letter representing the month the hull was made.

The "straight year format" used the last four digits to represent the month and year the boat was made. i.e. 0380 for March of 1980.

In 1984 the format changed, so that the ninth & tenth characters, a letter "A-L"and a number, represents the month and year of manufacture, followed by a two digit number representing the model year.

Canada did not adopt the HIN until 1981 and Europe until 2000. The Europeans effectively have made the HIN into a 14 character format by insisting that all boats sold in Europe have a two letter prefix identifying the country of origin. i.e. "US-MACX1234A202"

We in the in law enforcement and insurance industry have been attempting to get the standard changed to a 17 character VIN system ( similar to your car VIN), due to the fact that the HIN is not designed for law enforcemcent purposes and causes sigifcant problems related to boat theft investigations. NASBLA and Congress approved the change tothe 17 characte VIN but the USCG has steadfastly refused to change the regulations.

Larry

[Frank C]

. . . "CAREFUL: Boats built prior to 1980 use a completely different code, shown on Herman's webpage"

This comment is incorrect. As a boat theft specialist I lecture on this topic regulary.

The basic design of the HIN has been consistent (3 character manufacturer ID, 5 character production number, 4 character date of manufacture). The difference has allways been in the last four characters in the HIN which are used to designate when the boat was built and its model year.

Larry,

OOPS ... Since I don't own a pre-80 Mac, I didn't read much farther than [month code, A = August] when I declared the pre-80 codes "completely different." Sorry!

I suppose my comment was incorrect because the HIN's basic design is not "completely different." While reading about the history of HINs was interesting, WADR I candidly didn't gain any understanding of the code used by Macgregor prior to 1980 after reading your post, or much clarity into the differences. Therefore, I just quoted the rest of Herman's webpage, as now shown above.

Re-phrasing then, it seems (to me) that the HIN code is "substantially different" for purposes of a Macgregor owner. Specifically, the final four-character date segment differs in sequencing, the date segment lacks a "distinct model year," and the month codes are "completely different," by using letters A-to-L but starting with A = August. If I'm still missing something, please let me know and we'll get it fixed. (Otherwise, there's no benefit to having a thread with such a definitive title).

Cheers!

[Red Coat]

The confusion is understandable because prior to the 1984 standardization the month code was then the last character and the build year began in August?? Therefore it was "A "for August. I have no idea why they chose to do it that what, I am inclined to think is that it had to do with the model year change over which often occurred in the summer. In 1984 the month code was changed to a logical "A" for January etc. which obviously makes more sense.

Frankly the whole HIN thing has been a mess from its inception, because it was designed for product recall purposes and no thought was ever given to the law enforcement aspect of an identification number.

For the average boater what they need to know about a HIN is what year their boat was built and what production number their boat is. The production number (characters 4-8) have remained consistent regardless of the HIN design.

The model year is as follows:

Model Format (1972-1983) "MAC*****M81A" characters 10 & 11 = 1981
Straight Year (1972 to 1983) "MAC*****0181" last two characters = 1981
Current Format (post 1984) "MAC*****A484" last two characters = 1984

Larry

[Frank C]

The confusion is understandable because prior to the 1984 . . . The model year is as follows:

Model Format (1972-1983) "MAC*****M81A" characters 10 & 11 = 1981
Straight Year (1972 to 1983) "MAC*****0181" last two characters = 1981
Current Format (post 1984) "MAC*****A484" last two characters = 1984

And, adding further to the confusion, Macgregor Yachts implemented the current "post 1984" format as early as 1980 or '81

(At least that's true according to Herman's webpage,
which has been predominantly correct, I think) ...

And so, Roger demonstrates yet again that he has always been an industry leader!