Mainsail raising issues

[Tomfoolery]

And all 'hull' was to pay if there were any loose ropes on desk!

"Ropes"? "Ropes"??!!??

Somewhere your dad is screaming.

Only three (3) 'ropes' on a boat. The bell rope, and two others I can't remember.

[Tomfoolery]

Oh, and a bolt rope, at least on a sailboat. If it has one. Which is a big part of this thread.

[BOAT]

Yeah, I grabbed a rope and he yelled HALYARD, I grabbed a rope and he said LINE! I grabbed a rope and he said PAINTER! Even to this day I don't say "Lines" or "Painter" or a lot of stuff unless there is a reason I need to be very very specific, or if I'm talking to someone like Mike Inmon (He's another one who uses the entire vocabulary). It's like my spelling.


And I really don't know what they call that "rope" that runs the Luff and the foot of the mainsail? Do they have a name for it? (A bolt rope?) I'm sorry, but I just don't remember so I say 'rope'. It's kinda like saying 'boat'. It's a sort of trademark of mine. (Lots of laughs at the yacht club.)

Dad made fun of us if we got Lazy Guy and Lazy Sheet confused, (he hated a wet Lazy Guy when we flew the kite)

"Haul that Guy out of the water!"
"huh?"
"WITH ACULARITY!"

Oh oh!

"You scrapings of the waterfront" or "You motherless sons of land lubbing goat herders!"



Great, I'll be sent up the bosuns chair AGAIN tonight to lash the slapping of the halyards because my Mom and my sister can sleep! GREAT in the cold (and I sleep in the COCKPIT!) Burrrr!

Yeah, I remember.

[kmclemore]

Only three (3) 'ropes' on a boat. The bell rope, and two others I can't remember.

Oh, and a bolt rope, at least on a sailboat. If it has one. Which is a big part of this thread.

Previous discussion on all this earlier, here:

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... =9&t=20453

And my entry at the time....

• A "rope" in the hardware store becomes a "line" as soon as it comes aboard your boat

  FrankC had a great challenge some time back...name all the pieces of line on a boat that are still called rope...I think there were four in the challenge ..
  
  I'll grab the easy one..
  
  1. Bolt rope on the sail

  2. Starter "rope" on the outboard

  
  Surprisingly, there are actually a lot of ropes that are used on boats:
  
  1. Bolt Rope - along the edge of a sail
  2. Starter rope - for the outboard (good job - that's a new one!)
  3. Foot rope - the line that hangs under the spars on vintage ships, used for walking upon
  4. Buoy rope - to haul or anchor a buoy
  5. Yard Rope - for hauling yard arms
  6. Wheel ropes - for transferring motion of the wheel to the rudder -- replaced by cables in modern boats
  7. Man rope - the rope used as a handrail along a gangplank
  8. Mast rope - for hauling up the top mast
  9. Bell rope - used for ringing the ship's bell
  10. Tiller rope - similar function to the wheel rope, it is used to steady the tiller.
  
  Of course, only #'s 1, 2, 4, 7, 9 and 10 are used on modern boats, so there's really only 6 in current use, that I can think of. Any more to add to the list?

[Russ]

Luff Rope -
http://en.mimi.hu/boating/luff_rope.html

I agree that slugs are a PITA. They don't "seal" the sail to the mast as mentioned. They do't look that nice either. So I agree on those points.
But they also serve a valuable purpose. They allow the luff tension to be adjustable. In heavy winds you want a snug flat sail. In light winds you want a little looseness in the luff. I guess you could do this, but I've never owned a boat without slugs. Is it possible?

What I don't understand is how you lower your sail if the bolt rope is sliding up the track on the mast. My roller furler headsails do this on the furler track, but it can't be lowered without taking it out of the track completely. I have to "thread" the bolt rope up the track each time. This is no easy task. When doing this, I'm always fearful that the sail bolt rope is going to get caught on the track and tear into it.

So do all Mike's boats come that way?

My dealer was BWY and I really really like the way they outfitted the boat with the "cruising package". I don't want to bash Mike, he's a valuable contributor to this forum, but I read in another thread that he didn't suggest a UV headsail cover. That the sail will simply need replacement in a few years anyway. Not prudent advice in my opinion.

[BOAT]

He could be just following the "company line" (Get it? company 'line'? ha ha . . ) okay, never mind.

The factory advertizes a boat ready to sail at a "sail away" price so I ssume that is the bare minimum. The black boat that Mike uses at Rogers house has a furling main, so It may very well have slugs, (I did not notice), but the furling main is a VERY EXPENSIVE option - again NOT factory.

If you take a stock factory boat your getting a main with a "bolt rope" and a slotted mast with no gate lock. It's just WIDE OPEN.

That is all I know to operate folks, never had slugs before - but I have seen them and I just don't like the way they look. I'm sorry, please don't get mad at me for being so particular - it's just me.If you want to see how to reef a stock main I will take some pictures. I just lowered the mast to put on the new mast hound but I can raise it back up when I'm done and hoist the main. Then I will reef it and I will take pictures of the tack IN and the tack OUT and you guys can tell me what you prefer.

[Russ]

He could be just following the "company line" (Get it? company 'line'? ha ha . . ) okay, never mind.

The factory advertizes a boat ready to sail at a "sail away" price so I ssume that is the bare minimum.

If you take a stock factory boat your getting a main with a "bolt rope" and a slotted mast with no gate lock. It's just WIDE OPEN.

Well, since the factory is ceasing production, it doesn't matter much. The factory business model is a dirt cheap "sail away" boat.
It allowed them to advertise a boat and trailer for $22,900. Wow! That sounds so affordable. Well, until you outfit it with a motor, a headsail, anchors and such and now you're pushing $40k. Still a great bargain for a 26' boat, but not as attractive at the boat show as the sign that reads "$22,900" which is the price of an average car. The basic factory boat is a blank canvas. It needs a lot of extras to actually sail the thing. Even more if you want to dock and/or anchor it.

Also, Mike's dealership is not to be confused with the actual factory that really doesn't sell boats to the public. It's a good thing to have a dealer that will outfit and train you on the boat. One size does not fit all and this allows the dealer to customize the boat for each of our needs.

I'm glad you like the bolt rope luff. I'm still curious how you lower the sail without taking it out of the track. Same with raising it. My halyards are in the cockpit and it's nice to raise the main from the helm.

[BOAT]

You can't do it from the helm. To rasise and lower the main I go on deck.

I will get you some pictures tomorrow -

[DrV]

Are you kidding or what? Mine (2011 make) arrived without any kind of slugs whatsoever

Okay, so how is your main connected to the mast?

I just feed the rope which is inside the front side of mainsail to the feeding slot. Then I pull the line that goes to the top corner of sail. In calm weather I can easily do it alone, singlehanded. I also have Doyle sail.

Ha! Now I can admit that ONCE , in a hurry to leave, I have tried to hoist the sale without feeding the rope-side of sail inside the slot. Felt myself stupid. That stupidity could have been seen from far away. Upper side of sail needed some repair.

My 2008 Doyle main has slugs that go up the mast track. It never did this well, but it never took 4 people to hoist it either. As mentioned before, if my halyard is not perfectly straight (my lines run aft to cockpit) it becomes hard to hoist. Mine used to tangle around the forestay hound bolts. I covered the bolts with tape to help prevent this but it still happens.

I am not the topic-starter. But yes, the line gets sometimes caught by some nut on bolt up there near the top of the mast. And Every time I start asking myself, am I the only person to experience this. And if not - then why wouldn't the Costa Mesa guys insert the bolt from another side, and therefore put the nut on ANOTHER side of mast?

[DrV]

What do I do now?

I mean, reading some other topic, I got sure that I really need sail slugs, because SOMETIMES I sail single-handed... Also, because people are lazy. And sail slugs make life easier, as I understood.

But!!! I didn't even think that installing sail slugs means that there is some gap between sail's rope-side and mast, and I have ordered all those sail slugs from BWY. But the gap IS there. And wind will use it to escape without doing the job.

I think that most of you guys, sail in Bay Area, or in LA, where, I guess, winds are bit stronger. Maybe I am wrong, I never sailed there. I sail in Mediterranean, where often there isn't enough wind, and 3 knots GPS speed is all I can get.

Now, I am starting to think, what if the price for convenience is too high? If my speed becomes 2.8 or 2.9 knots instead of 3 - of course I don't care. If my speed is 4.7 instead of 5 - I don't care, either. But if loss is greater, then I am not sure at all that is the price I really want to pay for convenience

Ahhhhhh! Too much mental work makes too much trouble!



P.S. BOAT, you made me confused!!! I thought that I really need the sail slugs, now I think about the loss of power. Guys! Tell me it is only 1-2% loss of power, and I can not care less, and I am happy again that I ordered sail slugs, etc.

[Russ]

Guys! Tell me it is only 1-2% loss of power

Yup.. probably less than 1-2%. And only in strong winds. In light winds, the slugs will give your luff some slack which will actually INCREASE performance. Remember, this is a Mac, they don't sail well and that tiny tiny amount of air isn't much.

I just can't imagine going up on deck and feeding that rope into the track just to raise your main. You will LOVE using sail slugs and having the ease to raise and lower it without using the track. NOT falling off the deck threading the sail is more important to me. Especially single handed I can stay in the cockpit.

You may also want one of these gate stops to keep the sail slugs from dropping out of the track. I have an extra, but doesn't do you good there.

[Russ]

I just can't imagine doing this on a bouncy sea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=610njoVh4ic

Jim took main raising to the extreme. He installed lazyjacks and a looped halyard so he can pull the sail up or down from the comfort of the cockpit.
I'm seriously considering this mod. Way nicer than standing on the deck EVER. With this and the roller headsail, no need to leave the cockpit.

http://s132.beta.photobucket.com/user/c ... 9.mp4.html

[drams_1999]

I have had tons of problems raising the main over the years (got my boat new in 2008). It came from the factory with only the bolt rope (no slugs) and no topping lift or slot cover.
My first outing (with the dealer) I ripped the sail raising it as the sail material snagged in the slot.
I have had the halyard snag on that dang bolt aloft more than once, until I decided to sawcut the bolt flush so that no threads stuck out. It never happenned again after that. Once it even snagged up there in a funky way that wouldnt allow me to raise or lower the sail (dont ask how). I had to lower the mast in the high seas to secure the main. Not fun.
I had slugs put in after a couple of years. They still jambed up until I added the topping lift. That fixed the jambing issue. The sail won't go up easy unless the boom is held up high (no boom weight hanging from the sail)

Then the main would occasionally snag on the port side cleat (normally used for hank on jib halyard) when started to hoist. I got rid of the cleat and then it never happened again either.

I guess I'm like Edison, I have found 100 ways to do it wrong before I found the right way.

As far as sailing performance in light winds, I got a roller genoa and that really helps me on days of light winds, (and naturally this can be controlled from aft single-handed). IMHO the slugs are essential on a boat like this and the roller reefing genoa is needed too, I don't worry about the tiny gap behind the mast because of the slugs, after all, you still have the same sail area any turbulence there would probably be insignifant.

Thats about it. I'm sorry if I repeated alot of previous information but I figured my experiences could be helpful to anyone with a factory equipped M that has issues raising the main. My current configuration allows me to raise and lower the main from the cockpit. I added a downhaul as well to help bring it down. When it gets tough I put a turn or two on the winch and carefully pull the last bit.

Good luck!

[Russ]

Then the main would occasionally snag on the port side cleat (normally used for hank on jib halyard) when started to hoist. I got rid of the cleat and then it never happened again either.

Okay, you have convinced me to do the same. I always wanted to cut that thing off. Now I will. And I bet my halyard won't get caught in it again. Why is it so long? Cut it down and it won't get caught. Bravo to you. I'm doing this.

My current configuration allows me to raise and lower the main from the cockpit.

So what is your current configuration? Sail slugs? Halyards led to cockpit?

[1st Sail]

Ahmed,
I originally had 3/8in. slugs which worked but would bind slightly. I sent my main back to SailRite for addition of reef points and minor repairs. They suggested I switch to 1/2in. Pointed into the wind I can raise the main with one hand/arm pull. If you have slugs check make sure they are all matched. If they are less then 3/8in. (9.525mm) diameter they may be pinching in the slot.
If the sail is that hard to raise how difficult is it to lower?