need set up help, and mods.

[Newell]

It's also interesting that the upper and lower shroud max loading is essentially the same at 3.36F until the spreader is shortened, at which point it jumps to 4.05F for the upper and drops to 3.16F for the lower.

OK, so I find this sort of thing interesting. Not everyone does.

What is your conclusion? Is this mod too challenging?

I wish you were around when I was doing this Mod. I know the loads and ratios changed by shortening the spreaders and I was also hoping I understood the formulas and math I used to do it. I actually shortened more than I said. However, the doing of the trick is better than knowing how to do it but letting the complexity of it stop you from proceeding.

I really like the shortened spreaders and it (mod) works well in many ways every trip out. Readers must do their own due diligence and own their own safety.

[kevinnem]

I know exactly what yer talking about... an elaborate solution to a simple problem.

Simple solution ... Quick-release lifelines. Or remove the laundry lifelines altogether and forego their false sense of security!

Very good point, the only thing stopping me from doing so - is that he lifelines are "swaged" ??? together, they are not removable without apparently wrecking them. They have some sort of crimp connector, that must be cut off or something to "replace" with a removable clip/

[mastreb]

The stock lifelines are not fantastic. If you're considering modding them, I'd recommend cutting them off and replacing them with vinyl coated lifelines that have adjustable pelican hooks at both ends. Cost me about $300 to have West Marine make me a set in their rigging shop.

[Octaman]

Newell, I sense that you may have been offended with my observations and if that is the case I do apologize.
Naturally you own your own safety - but . . . ...only to the point that it does not jeopardize the safety of others.

The fact that your shortened spreaders have been standing up to the job until now does not mean that all is well. The problem with these things is that you cannot visually see the stress that goes into the wires etc. – the consequences of shortening your spreaders are not immediately visible. This can be misleading if you do not completely comprehend the physics that go into the equation and how the material behaves.

If you are taking a calculated risk, then that is fine (I too like to experiment) - but if you are confident that you have done the right thing then you may be in for a surprise.

You will be convinced about the theory only when your mast comes down (which I hope it never does) because that you will be able to clearly see. Believe me, it is a traumatic experience. I am only trying to help you avoid this option. I have made my point and I need not elaborate further.

---

Dear Catigale, I am having difficulty understanding your posts; "SWAG" in my limited knowledge of the American language means ‘Someone Who Acts Gay’ but with this explanation there is no sense in the context of your writing. So I must be wrong and there must be another meaning, Can you please help me expand my knowledge with a new meaning to SWAG that will permit me to understand your always interesting posts
Has this anything to do with the blue or white hull jokes I have been seeing over the years? Or perhpas the HASP?

Happy Sailing,

Octaman

[K9Kampers]

Octaman-

SWAG = Scientific WildAss Guess

...and yea, he's one happy Cat...

HASP = Have Another Stovepipe Porter

[cruiser]

Being on the wrong side of 50 (or more ) I did find a lot of this web language hard to decipher until I located this. Some of the less hip and IT illiterate like myself may find this useful:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iirc

Can't believe how many different definitions come up for SWAG but definition no.26 list all the following for starters:
Scientific Wild Ass Guess
Semantic Web Agreement Group
Shock Wave Generator
Silly Wild Ass(ed) Guess
Simulated Waste Access to Ground Water
Sold Without A Guarantee
Sophisticated Wild Ass Guess
Souvenirs, Wearables And Gifts
Standard Written Agreement
Still Wondering and Guessing
Stolen While At Gig
Stuff We Acquired Gratis
Stuff We All Get

[Octaman]

WOW!

Thank you both, K9Kampers and Cruiser for clarifying.

We learn new things all the time . . . . . .

Octaman

[RobertB]

Seems a lot of work to re-do lifelines or modify the spreaders when just replacing the bolts holding the spreaders in the mast bracket and using a pair of clevis pins is so easy and cheap. I bring my mast down almost all the way, disconnect the spreaders, tie them to the mast with a bungee cord, and never need to worry about the spreaders against the lifelines or worse rubbing against the deck (I have wear spots from my first year). Raising is the same in reverse. I color coded the spreaders with red and blue tape to eliminate confusion on what spreader goes where. End result is easier rigging without moving the mast back and forth.

[Tomfoolery]

It's also interesting that the upper and lower shroud max loading is essentially the same at 3.36F until the spreader is shortened, at which point it jumps to 4.05F for the upper and drops to 3.16F for the lower.

OK, so I find this sort of thing interesting. Not everyone does.

What is your conclusion? Is this mod too challenging?

That's where I get off the bus. I didn't do a full three-dimensional analysis; just a look at what happens when you change the spreader length modeled as a 2-dimensional 'truss' structure, and even the geometry was a bit of a guess. But the results do show a trend, which was all I was looking for.

But I can speculate that if MacGregor designed the rigging and boat structure interfaces (like chainplate mounting, and mast tabernacle reactions to the cabin top) with as little factor of safety as they felt was safe, then shortening the spreaders has reduced it to less than they felt was appropriate. It would also make the rig more springy. Watch for signs of fatigue in the wire, which you should do anyway, as you'd be cycling higher loads on them. Check the pins; I've noticed mine actually wearing at the chainplates, and be sure the ringdings aren't trying to pull through the stay adjusters, which can happen anyway.

A real sailboat rigger, which I am not, would be a better judge of the wisdom and pitfalls of this course of action.

[Tomfoolery]

I bring my mast down almost all the way, disconnect the spreaders, tie them to the mast with a bungee cord, and never need to worry about the spreaders against the lifelines or worse rubbing against the deck (I have wear spots from my first year).

That's what I started doing this past season, but I haven't come up with a uniform, repeatable procedure for collecting and storing the rigging. I need routine to achieve efficiency, which I have to work on. Takes me too long to rig the boat now.

Popping the spreaders off helps a lot, and leaves the cabin roof clear for walking, but I might experiment with popping the lifelines loose instead, maybe with Johnson levers. Or better yet pelican hooks, which I'm used to working with one hand, as my last boat used them on the lifeline gates, and they come completely off rather than just going slack.

I want to travel more this coming season, and speeding up the rigging process would make that more enjoyable.

[mastreb]

I haven't come up with a uniform, repeatable procedure for collecting and storing the rigging.

I too take the spreaders off, which makes everything about stepping and unstepping the mast easier, especially moving the mast back and forth between the pulpit and the mast foot.

My uniform procedure for dealing with both the standing and running rigging:

After moving the mast to the pulpit, open slide hatch. Toss everything in. Close hatch, managing wires, sheets, halyards, and everything else through the two little ports formed by the hatch rail cutouts. Be sure you've pulled the slack out of everything as you close the hatch. Call it done.

Takes maybe 1 min. If I'm really slow. Reverse operation:

Open hatch so all lines and shrouds are loose. Step mast. Pull out shrouds until I find the spreaders. Make sure spreaders aren't tangled in anything and are right-side-up. Raise Mast. Everything pretty much untangles as it goes up, but you do need to pay a little bit of attention to the halyard to make sure it's on the right side of the spreaders. This is easy because the way gravity takes it is the right side, so as long as it's not looped over anything, it's fine.

I trailer this way for 30 minutes back and forth on the I5 at 65. Nothing has ever moved.

When the hatch is slid back over the stays and sheets, everything is under a little bit of tension and can't really move at all.

Matt

[Newell]

Simple solution ... Quick-release lifelines. Or remove the laundry lifelines altogether and forego their false sense of security!

Call it simple if you want, not so. You have added 2 tasks to the put up and take down process and probably further compromised your false sense of security.

[Tomfoolery]

After moving the mast to the pulpit, open slide hatch. Toss everything in. Close hatch, managing wires, sheets, halyards, and everything else through the two little ports formed by the hatch rail cutouts. Be sure you've pulled the slack out of everything as you close the hatch. Call it done.

I've seen this said by more than one member here, which leads me to think I haven't been getting the message until now. It takes me a long time to strap up all that rigging, and bungies are scarring the mast. For trailering, I also disconnect the headstay at the hound and move it back so the furler is supported, which takes time and I almost always end up with halyards in the wrong place.

Gotta come up with a cheap-and-cheerful way to support the loose end of the forestay and furling drum. But I'm really starting to warm up to the idea of just chucking everything else into the cabin.

[K9Kampers]

Simple solution ... Quick-release lifelines. Or remove the laundry lifelineslooking altogether and forego their false sense of security!

Call it simple if you want, not so. You have added 2 tasks to the put up and take down process and probably further compromised your false sense of security.

For the put up / take down, I'd rather modify the laundry lines with pelican hooks thus adding two SIMPLE steps & eliminating one arduous step of looking like a monkey f*****g a football while maneuvering spreaders around lifelines.

[Tomfoolery]

For the put up / take down, I'd rather modify the laundry lines with pelican hooks thus adding two SIMPLE steps & eliminating one arduous step of looking like a monkey f*****g a football while maneuvering spreaders around lifelines.

I prefer this style pelican hook, 'cause I can work them with one hand (connect or disconnect) from lots of practice over the years, and they're about impossible to break, but they're more expensive than the ones with the little spring-pin and ringding.