Blue Water Mods?

[mastreb]

While this isn't something I'd ever do in a Mac, I thought I'd add my two cents.

The most important criteria in my opinion are:

0) Upgrade the boat to withstand ocean forces on critical components.
1) Ability to relieve wind forces immediately in a blow
2) Ability to right the boat if it turtles
3) Ability to helm the boat from the inside under power

All of my recommendations are for the M.

--Add an 8 or 9.9 hp kicker. I wouldn't remove my existing ETEC because it's pretty good ballast when its low and it forms a good third rudder. But kicker powerful enough to keep you at hull speed efficiently is an important source of redundancy.

--Build a custom dagger, and carry an extra set of rudders.

--Upgrade the steering to hydraulic, and add an extra wheel actuator inside the boat at daggerboard trunk so you can helm from inside the boat. You can set it up on a valve to line-out the cockpit helm.

--Replace the sliding hatch and companionway with a custom-made fiberglass and lexan pilothouse that will allow you to see 360 around the boat from the inside. You can go up about 10" from the deck. I'd build it as a single-piece of fiberglass that requires the sliding hatch rails to be removed to install it and then are used to bolt it back down. Bed it with Butyl tape, which is waterproof but easy to remove so you can go back to stock later. This would then have a smaller gasketed hatch installed where the companionway hatch is. It could be removed when you're back in coastal areas and need to be trailerable.

--Install an inboard hydraulic autohelm to keep exhaustion at bay.

Pack the cable through-way at the stern with sealing putty.

--Put a chart-plotter on the helm and inside the cabin on an NMEA 2000 bus.

--Get a wind instrument, an I-band radar, and a mast-mounted VHF with AIS.

--Get two EPIRBs.

--I would upgrade all the portholes to 3/8 Lexan and make certain they're correctly bedded.

--Seal the ballast port vent hole with a compression fitting once the ballast tank is full. You don't want the ballast tank draining if you turtle.

--Get a roller reefing main. Ability to reef easily, drop the main and jib immediately, and reef to exacting wind conditions is far more important than performance.

--Put flexible freshwater tanks in long tubes in the bilge. Make sure they're longer than the openings in the bilge so they'll stay inside the liner if the boat is upside down.

--Tow an inflatable dinghy with it's own 3.5hp, and make certain it's fastened to the boat securely.

--Have both a large Fortress and a Rocna-style anchor on 20' of chain each. Keep the Rocna and it's chain under the v-berth however to keep weight low in the boat.

--Strap an extra 10 gallons of fuel off the port and starboard stern in twin 5 gallon tanks.

--Setup to bed down on the sole of the cabin floor. This will keep you from falling off of anything at night and will keep your body weight as low in the boat as possible.

--Use the "aft head" whenever possible, and keep your pot empty and dry whenever possible. In the open ocean, by far the best thing to do with human waste is dump it overboard immediately, so the stock port-a-potty will do just fine.

--Get a good asymmetrical spinnaker. You'll be going directly downwind a lot and you'll want to take full advantage of the trade winds.

And yeah, after you've done all this, you'll find you could have gotten a used 45 footer setup to go for less money. None of the power-sailor or trailerable characteristics of a Mac do you any good in the open ocean.

[Hamin' X]

Don't forget the "Gate-Hasp"!

[Ormonddude]

Man you guys are funny, I used to beach launch my Mac Venture Banana hull Catamaran and sail out of site of land just for Kicks a X or M not even a issue with Bimini approx 50 miles off Miami your talking leave in the morning and make land in the afternoon keep in mind your in vhf range of at least couple hundred commercial fishing vessels and coast guard vessels and other patrols I went out snapper fishing for a mini season there was like 17' open sport fisher's at the 9 mile reef. There you have a 26' unsinkable gale tested motor/sail propulsion dual rudder fairly bullet proof (as long as you Inspected the hardware well) OH YEA self righting made to do it craft and your Afraid? and I just have to say I actually have stepped on the windows when rigging my and if my BFA didnt phase it I think they are fine. Dam yankee's lol

[Catigale]

....and in a good following sea, stock or rudders will snap like carrots if you make a simple helm mistake ......

[Ormonddude]

Have you snapped them Cat? are you sure of that? because I was under the impression water pressure is the same regardless of conditions of course there is shock loading but if Macgregor engineers are so Lame they cant over compensate for shock load frankly we should not be buying their boats. They Should put a Big Stamp on the Helm for Pond use only like cheap rubber dinghy's I have seen bent pins and such BUT again its all about watching the weather and only going in favorable conditions.

[Catigale]

Absolutely.

At what speed does Roger tell you to lift rudders In the manual? 6 knots?

In a following sea, you can easily surf down waves at 10-12 knots....roughly 2x this speed...this is fine as long as you are keeping the rudder at near zero angle, but the minute this varies.........

You can motor at higher speeds without worry as long as you aren't throwing the boat around, since you usually keep the rudder deflection angle near zero at higher speed.

In blue water, you can easily lose control of the boat in rough seas, and skid sideways - presenting the full Rudder surface to the motion of the boat...might last two three times, max....

Btw..it isn't uncommon or blue water boats to snap their rudders in these conditions..

[reastmure]

By "absolutely" do you mean you have snapped rudders on a Mac? Has anyone out there had this experience? I read the story about the guy sailing to the Magdalene's and sounded like he may have been putting the rudders under major stress with out incident. I would not attempt any kind of blue water sailing with these boats myself, but I like to hear what they are capable of. I have done some fairly fast down wind sailing going over the 6 knot barrier and I'd like to know for sure how easily I could snap a rudder. They do seem to be on the flimsy side.

[dlandersson]

Is Lake Michigan a pond? Because that's wear I sail.

Have you snapped them Cat? are you sure of that? because I was under the impression water pressure is the same regardless of conditions of course there is shock loading but if Macgregor engineers are so Lame they cant over compensate for shock load frankly we should not be buying their boats. They Should put a Big Stamp on the Helm for Pond use only like cheap rubber dinghy's I have seen bent pins and such BUT again its all about watching the weather and only going in favorable conditions.

[dlandersson]

8 knots on the 97 manual.

Absolutely.

At what speed does Roger tell you to lift rudders In the manual? 6 knots?

In a following sea, you can easily surf down waves at 10-12 knots....roughly 2x this speed...this is fine as long as you are keeping the rudder at near zero angle, but the minute this varies.........

You can motor at higher speeds without worry as long as you aren't throwing the boat around, since you usually keep the rudder deflection angle near zero at higher speed.

In blue water, you can easily lose control of the boat in rough seas, and skid sideways - presenting the full Rudder surface to the motion of the boat...might last two three times, max....

Btw..it isn't uncommon or blue water boats to snap their rudders in these conditions..

[mastreb]

7 knots in the 2010 M manual. I'd lift the rudders and use the outboard skeg as the rudder in these conditions, since I wouldn't be sailing either.

[Highlander]

Just Do It
http://s844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 010072.mp4

J

[yukonbob]

can't comment on the stock rudder brackets, but the ss ones will take a 12-15kt in following seas repeatedly without problem side slipping and all. I do however keep a spare rudder and bracket on board just in case Just to clarify as well…the manual (M model anyways) says to pull daggerboard and rudders when powering over 6mph to avoid doing damage to the truck or steering if you hit a submerged object, not that they can't take the stress.

[restless]

and beef up the brackets that hold the rudder pintles.
We've been cruising the Greek islands. I'm pretty happy with the mods done so far.. it has made the mac a live-aboard scuba platform. However, to go to blue water is just not possible in my opinion. Fall off a big wave a few times will stove the sides in. There is too much freeboard. As previously mentioned, after 10 hours of being smashed around by a storm, you'll probly give up the will to live anyway. Get a copy of adlard coles classic 'heavy weather sailing'... it's an eye opener. If you cover the postage from the UK, you can borrow my copy.
I've heard and felt the boat banging in small square wave seas enough to know that to take her beyond 30m from the coast is going to remain in the exceptional category. On longer island hops I sometimes prefer to motor in a dead calm. Med winds can appear from nowhere with great prejudice. hate it, but so far in 3 seasons we've had no scares.
my mods: http://www.ironengineer.com/mac/home/index.htm
Get a boat for the job!

[robbarnes1965]

Restless, your mods are unbelievable. Not having the place to do all that, nor the skill, it would cost me a fortune. Good work.

[seahouse]

--Replace the sliding hatch and companionway with a custom-made fiberglass and lexan pilothouse that will allow you to see 360 around the boat from the inside. You can go up about 10" from the deck. I'd build it as a single-piece of fiberglass that requires the sliding hatch rails to be removed to install it and then are used to bolt it back down. Bed it with Butyl tape, which is waterproof but easy to remove so you can go back to stock later. This would then have a smaller gasketed hatch installed where the companionway hatch is. It could be removed when you're back in coastal areas and need to be trailerable.

Hey Mastreb - you mean something like this...

http://s1180.photobucket.com/albums/x40 ... C01873.jpg

http://s1180.photobucket.com/albums/x40 ... C01871.jpg

http://s1180.photobucket.com/albums/x40 ... C01870.jpg

http://s1180.photobucket.com/albums/x40 ... C01872.jpg

- Brian.