First help, please

[waternwaves]

And as greg also wrote....

Another location I am considering is in the head port window,

where the dinette wall crosses that window is an easy location to make a 90 degree stainless steel bracket that would hold the blower still leave the solar cell facing out through an access hole cut in the acrylic.., some silicon seal squirted in their... but the issue then would be the rain hood..

Moe...are they likely to let water in with an almost vertical orientation...??

[Frank C]

Several thoughts:

• 1. Green water over the bow is pretty rare on this boat. If you have much of it, your problems are vastly greater than that leak. Wonder if Nicro sells a boot or snap-over cover?
  2. However, spray across the deck is a daily occurence. I'm guessing that's not too much a problem for the Nicro ...
  3. IMO, lines aft aren't really compromised by Moe's placement. For the two lines per side we need, they can easily be turned at the aft corners of the mast step.
  4. Vertical mounting kinda defeats the solar concept, eh?

My dealer suggested following, but I never went there. Consider it just a brainstorm without proper research ...

• A. Study the well-protected aft vertical bulkheads under the helmseat coaming. There's already a 2-inch plug there, just under the seat hinge. Foam flotation fills these bulkheads, but there's ample airspace for serving as low-volume plenums.
  B. Mount a pancake exhaust fan in each bulkhead, port & stbd. A 5v computer fan would be great, but I'm not sure it would move enough air.
  C. As a serious alternative, look up bilge fans in your handy WM catalog, but pay close attention to wattage.
  D. Cut holes into flotation bulkheads somewhere over the aft berth, cover each hole with air grille.
  E. Wire the fans to a 3-way switch near the 12v panel.
  F. Attach switch to appropriately rated solar panel for venting while stored, alternate to the batteries for cruising days or nights.
  G. Ergo - solar-powerd, weather-protected, vertically mounted vent fans.

[Moe]

First, let me emphasize just how much I hate working up on the deck, over the concrete driveway, with the mast down and all those cables and spreaders presenting trip hazards, not to mention the lifelines at the right height to guarantee I'll go down head first. The vent fan is just one other thing to have to step around, in addition to the windows, spreaders, jib cars, etc. I'll be a helluva lot more comfortable on the water with the shrouds as something to grab rather than trip over.

There's room for my feet around the fan, left foot on the forward outboard side, between it and the window, and right foot behind it. I usually work on the port side where the fan is, since there's a chance I'd fall on the grass on that side. That's the side someone cleating off the jib halyard would stand, so care would be called for. In our case, the jib halyard will be used for a foresail cover now, and perhaps a spinnaker later, and in either case, most use of the jib halyard, except cleating, would be done from more forward on the bow. I think once on the water, I'll use the starboard side more.

My concern with putting the fan on the side of the boat is not so much rain getting into it, especially if it's blowing out, or even waves of water, especially saltwater, washing up into it when the boat is heeled to that side. It's that current from a solar cell falls off with the cosine of the angle the sun's rays are away from perpendicular to that cell, and that with the cell on the side of the boat, the time it's facing the sun's direction will only be a fraction of the total daylight time. I am, however, concerned enough about the water intrusion issue to get the fan and intrusion into the cabin as far from it as possible.

Might I suggest this for a trial... tape a disposable aluminum pie pan down to the spot you're considering mounting the fan. If it survives a few trips out, that's probably a good location for the fan.

--
Moe

[Catigale]

Greg - Catigale here.

I did the 'Moe' location last Thanksgiving of the 3 inch Nicro vent port side of the mast. Indeed, you do go through a stringer in this location, but I cannot see/feel any deck movement under my 220 pounds.

Its great spot for venting - I have the version that can run as either intake or exhaust

I would recommend the SS version over the plastic one if you will leave it in.

On an extended sailing trip, you can remove it and put in the block off plate - if you know you will be up on deck a lot, you can recover the space that way..

[Greg]

Thanks for the responses. Good idea on the pie pan Moe, I think I'll try that.

Frank C. I installed a deck plate port side under the helm when I installed a swim ladder grab bar. That could be adapted for venting the rear berth area but could only be used to exhaust stale air. An intake in that area could pull gas fumes and/or CO into the sleeping area.

Steven, when you cut through to install the 3" nicro, was there much left of the stringer for support? 3" nicro 700 CFH, 4" nicro 850CFH. Also, did you use to make the hole?

A few years back I read about a sailboat that had a neat system for ventilating the cabin. It pulled fresh air down though the bilge, into the cabin, then exhausted it up through the mast. It was a passive system in that the air was cooled when moving though the bilge and up through the mast as it warmed up.

Greg

[Catigale]

On cutting the 3 inch + clearance hole for the NICRO 3 inch vent, I used a jig saw, variable speed. This was a real PITA and I would strongly recommend using a hole saw for this with the following technique

Measure measure measure three times,and locate your hole center.

Drill a pilot hole through both the deck and the liner in one step (thereby centering your liner through hole with your deck through hole)

Now cut your liner hole from the inside without hitting the deck with the recommended size hole saw

Now cut your deck hole from up top with the appropriate hole saw.

Greg - I completely cut the stringer through when I did this mod, but again, cant see any motion on the deck with my 220 pounds jumping up and down, so Im not worried about it.

Im still going to locate a second Nicro vent and am thinking about the front hatch - this would be for camping so I would put the plate in while sailing for the reasons enumerated above (damage, loss of deck space while sailing, water intrusion)

[Moe]

Whenever using a a sabre saw, on gelcoat, cover the gelcoat with at least two layers of masking tape about a foot all the way around the cut. The base of a vibrating sabre saw can really damage gelcoat.

When using a hole saw, I also use masking tape to prevent chipping out. As suggested in another thread here, running the hole saw slowly backwards to establish an initial groove mya help prevent chipping as well. Stephens idea of creating a pilot hole all the way through with a drill bit without the hole saw first is also a good idea.

I think the single 3" vent, at 750 cfm, is plenty for exchanging air in the cabin. It may not create enough wind on your body, however. rather than add another Nicro vent, I'd add something like a Maxx fan to create the breeze inside.
--
Moe

[Greg]

I had read somewhere to use a special sabre saw blade for fiberglass that has the teeth cutting on the down stroke instead of up. I finally found them, but wasn't impressed with the results - they didn't last too long and didn't do a very nice job. I have a dremel and roto-zip, but haven't tried either on the fiberglass yet. Can anyone report success with either? I don't have a hole saw blade that big, but am more than willing to add to the collection if that is the way to go. I learned a long time ago the right tool can make all the difference between a difficult job and an easy one.

One thing I do in the house whenever using a drill or power tool is vacuum the dust with a shop vac as I make it. Glass dust collection will be especially important when cutting or drilling fiberglass inside the cabin. The roto zip has a clear shield with a vacuum attachment so that all the debris is collected, but you can still see to guide the blade. In hindsight, I should have kept the fiberglass piece I cut out when I installed the deck plate so I could practice with different roto zip blades.

Greg

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

When I use a sabre saw, on fiberglass or the plastic windows for putting in opening ports, I use duct tape on the part being cut, and on the shoe of the saw.
When I drill in fibreglass, with a drill bit, not a hole saw, I spin the drill bit by hand several times. This helps to prevent the bit from skating when you apply power.

[aya16]

Roto Zip the only way to go neat clean hole and very fast. all holes cut in my boat was from the roto zip. Including a very exact square hole for the cd/ radio. came out perfect. Does not chip the fiberglass or top coat. Freehand following a line is very good.

[Moe]

Although I could get rotary cutting bits for my Dremel, I wouldn't trust my hand to follow a line, especially a curved one... or even a straight one (what else is there?)

Wherever possible, I always use a hole saw for circles... and I'll have to looki into that Dremel attachment for larger circles. Spade bits have worked well for me for smaller holes for things like switches, using a pilot hole first. I do start the cut very slowly with them. Keep in mind a dull bit increases the probability of chipping.

For rectangular holes, especially those with radiused corners, I carefully drill the appropriate size holes in the corners with a twist drill, spade bit, or small hole saw, and use a sabre saw to cut between them.

--
Moe

[Greg]

aya16,
What RotoZip blade do you use for fiberglass?
Greg

[aya16]

The wood bit i believe Ill check and get back to you later