Dismasted this past weekend.

[Catigale]

Tlg....Sailing Atlanta is your nearest dealer.....you should be able to get a mast delivered from Roger attached to the next boat for cost of mast plus a case of beer

[Newell]

you should be able to get a mast delivered from Roger attached to the next boat for cost of mast plus a case of beer

This is a fine option but there is more to it than just replacement. This is a new to Mac X sailor now facing a total rigging upgrade, i.e. 30' mast, rotating hardware, new shrouds and forestay? New Mainsail? Let's hear from others that have done it and why?, was it worth the investment?

[Catigale]

Well, mast broken, needs replacement - not sure I see other options??

[Newell]

Catigale,

Your right, he could cut the mast to 28' and use new socket and old spreaders and wire, and mainsail but only save a few bucks.

[Seapup]

Tlg....Sailing Atlanta is your nearest dealer.....you should be able to get a mast delivered from Roger attached to the next boat for cost of mast plus a case of beer

I read this several times but am not sure if it is really an option. You would want to contact a specific dealer to find out if they could/would be able to order a M mast for you. I called the factory directly when I needed one, and they were nice but said they will not sell any macgregor parts, only entire boats. They directed me to BWY who gave me several options for the X mast from blank to predrilled with hardware and ready to install. They ship it in a tube to prevent damage, but tube and shipping were more than the mast.

Well, mast broken, needs replacement - not sure I see other options??

There is a used mast on Cl in Atlanta for $200.

Other people who have both the M mast and hobie 18 mast have reported they look like they come from the same extrusion and the hardware is directly interchangable. I can't comment on the hobie/M mast, but the nacra mast (which is also supposed to be almost identical to hobie) was straightforward when I swapped to it.

[Russ]

you should be able to get a mast delivered from Roger attached to the next boat for cost of mast plus a case of beer

This is a fine option but there is more to it than just replacement. This is a new to Mac X sailor now facing a total rigging upgrade, i.e. 30' mast, rotating hardware, new shrouds and forestay? New Mainsail? Let's hear from others that have done it and why?, was it worth the investment?

Could just get the blank mast sans the hardware and cut it to length and reuse hardware.

However, you bring up an interesting idea. Why not upgrade to a full rotating mast. I've heard it done here. Not sure how that would work, if the shrouds would support no backstay, etc. But I would do it.

I've slowly become a fan of the rotating mast. I think it makes a small difference.

[macr]

Based on Leon's comments for 15% breaking strength for tension on shrouds and stays, how do you guys reach the 300+ lbs of tension when you don't have turnbuckles?

[Sumner]

Based on Leon's comments for 15% breaking strength for tension on shrouds and stays, how do you guys reach the 300+ lbs of tension when you don't have turnbuckles?

What are you using? A Johnson lever?

Cat I love ya, but still have to disagree on tensioning a 5/32 forestay...

http://www.macgregor26x.com/forum/viewt ... f4#p242671

.... and will go by what the guy at Loos & Co. told me. Believe me with 300 lbs. on a forestay regardless of if it is 1/8 or 5/32 it is tight ,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Russ]

Based on Leon's comments for 15% breaking strength for tension on shrouds and stays, how do you guys reach the 300+ lbs of tension when you don't have turnbuckles?

I'd like to thank Leon for the measurement. I keep hearing "tight but not too tight" but what is that? The loos gauge would help.

The lack of turnbuckles on the Mac pose a legitimate concern. At least on mine, the "turnbuckles" have holes every quarter inch or so, therefore the best you can do is get close. They have graduated adjustments instead of infinite adjustments of a screw turnbuckle.

BW Yachts sells an adjusting tool
http://bwyachts.com/web%20catalog%20312 ... /tools.htm


Pretty simple to make yourself. A stick and 2 bolts. They laughed that anyone can make one, but some people still want to buy a pre-made tool.
Ray showed me how to use it. Basically put the bolts in the hole of the adjacent shroud and twist/pull down until shroud tightens up, then put the pin in. Not an exact science, but it works. The M forestay doesn't have any adjustments that I can see and of course there is no backstay.

[Catigale]

I love ya Back, Sum....

The statement "tension is tension' is categorically wrong, though.

5/32 1x19 break load is 3300# IIRC, so 300# tension is about 9% of breaking - well under Leons 15% guideline above...(Incidentally Selden recommends 15-20%)...so it might FEEL tight, but it isnt.

I know there is a feel good about putting 'thicker wire', which must be stronger, on your boat - but I assert that the danger to these boats is fatigue failure, not tensile failure.

If I put 5/32 1x9 I would want more like 500# tension on it to be safe...no idea if the Mac plate would take that though..

[RobertB]

If I needed to replace a broken mast, after I had determined that it could not be welded back together, and I wanted to save $$, I would measure the cross section of the mast and order a blank one from the manufacturer - not BWY or MacGregor but the business that sells mast extrusions such as Dwyer Aluminum Mast Company. https://www.dwyermast.com/families.asp? ... Name=Masts shows the standard masts they make. They are also located in CT - east coast and alot closer to GA (I assume this is where the boat with the broken mast is). No reason to pay a middleman.

Dwyer is not the only supplier, see http://www.top20sites.com/Top-Sailboat-Masts-Sites for a list of other options - maybe closer to GA. I would also check out any businesses nearby that do sailboat rigging and they may either have the mast extrusion you need in stock or have a low cost way of getting one added to an existing order.

[Sumner]

I love ya Back, Sum....

The statement "tension is tension' is categorically wrong, though.

5/32 1x19 break load is 3300# IIRC, so 300# tension is about 9% of breaking - well under Leons 15% guideline above...(Incidentally Selden recommends 15-20%)...so it might FEEL tight, but it isnt.

I know there is a feel good about putting 'thicker wire', which must be stronger, on your boat - but I assert that the danger to these boats is fatigue failure, not tensile failure.

If I put 5/32 1x9 I would want more like 500# tension on it to be safe...no idea if the Mac plate would take that though..

Your saying that our rigging isn't really tight with 300 lbs on the forestay and 320 or so on the shrouds. Well the shrouds are so tight that when you go forward you can grab them and they barely move. The forestay is also noticeably tighter and has the toggles at the extremes. That wasn't the way the boat was when we got it. So you are saying that what the rigging guy said is wrong?

I posted this some months back....

I talked to a technician at Loos & Co. today (800-321-5667) and he said there is no down side to running the same tension on a 5/32 forestay as you were running on the 1/8th. He said that with the larger wire diameter you can (if you want) run a higher tension as long as you don't run too much for the rest of the boat's structure as stated in the quote above. He went on to say that tension is tension and you run what is best for the boat within the limits of the wire you are running.

http://loosnaples.com/how-to-use-90-91

With their chart on the link above they say you can run up to about 320 lb. on a 1/8 wire and I'll bet that most people on here are not running that with their boat. I thought I was close to that, but after buying the gauge I found I was down around 200 and that was pinning and then tightening the turnbuckle. I am now a little over 300 with the 5/32.

He is making the statement that you can run more tension on a larger diameter wire, but you don't have to. The safety part is if you run 'to much' on a smaller diameter wire. If I support a building with say columns that are one foot in dia. and that is structurally sound will the building fall down if I use columns that are two feet in dia.?

How much tension are you running on your 1/8 th wire? How do you tension it when you raise the mast?

I don't know if I read of a 5/32 forestay failing, I'm sure somewhere one has, but I've read a number of reports and more all the time of 1/8th forestays failing. I'm not saying 1/8 th is unsafe. A lot of these are getting to be old rigging and rigging that is not tensioned properly. Even with 1/8th I don't believe that you can get in the 10% unless you pin and then tighten with a turnbuckle or have a Johnson Lever yet I read of people pinning there forestays all of the time with just the mast raising system and that won't get the rigging in the 10% to 15%.

Let us also remember that the 5/32's is only 1/32 larger in diameter. I just want to put this out there for those considering going to a larger forestay so they also have another view point on the matter and you know me if our forestay ever breaks a strand or has another problem I'll be the first to post it,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[DaveB]

The MacX has 1/8 lowers, backstay and headstay. The uppers are 5/32 and I changed my headstay to 5/32.
You have a lot of stress on that headstay with or without a roller furling system. I highly recomend a 5/32 head stay with swag fittings.
These boats flex as there are no bulkheads.
Beating in a 15 degree heel there be no movement in the windward stays.
Over 15 degrees there may appear slight slack.
Over tension of these boats can result in fractures of hull.(Samson post,gelcoat stress cracks )
No bulkhead at stays were the boat is pulling in as you adjust stays.
Dave

[Catigale]

Your saying that our rigging isn't really tight with 300 lbs on the forestay and 320 or so on the shrouds.

300# on 1/8 shroud is tight. 300# on 5/32 is not tight.

5/32 inch shroud is 25% thicker than a 1/8 and thus will have about 1.5X the breaking strength, and thus about 1.5x the required minimum tension...

Even with 1/8th I don't believe that you can get in the 10% unless you pin and then tighten with a turnbuckle or have a Johnson Lever yet I read of people pinning there forestays all of the time with just the mast raising system and that won't get the rigging in the 10% to 15%.

I agree. I tension with a Johnson lever like you - I cant get the pin in with the lever closed. I think a lot of the forestay failures are due to too loose rigging....

He is making the statement that you can run more tension on a larger diameter wire, but you don't have to.

I categorically reject this opinion as not sound. It is just as important to tension any rigging beyond the stretch point to remove fatigue failure

[Sumner]

Your saying that our rigging isn't really tight with 300 lbs on the forestay and 320 or so on the shrouds.

300# on 1/8 shroud is tight. 300# on 5/32 is not tight.

5/32 inch shroud is 25% thicker than a 1/8 and thus will have about 1.5X the breaking strength, and thus about 1.5x the required minimum tension...

Even with 1/8th I don't believe that you can get in the 10% unless you pin and then tighten with a turnbuckle or have a Johnson Lever yet I read of people pinning there forestays all of the time with just the mast raising system and that won't get the rigging in the 10% to 15%.

I agree. I tension with a Johnson lever like you - I cant get the pin in with the lever closed. I think a lot of the forestay failures are due to too loose rigging....

He is making the statement that you can run more tension on a larger diameter wire, but you don't have to.

I categorically reject this opinion as not sound. It is just as important to tension any rigging beyond the stretch point to remove fatigue failure

I guess I'll just have to disagree on this one and go with the guy that makes his living doing this and like I said if we ever have a problem I'll be sure and post. Still love ya and agree with 99% of your posts ,

Sum

===================================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links