More on Sculling a Mac

[Kittiwake]

This year there have been a few mentions (on this site) of the possibility of sculling a Mac ... but I haven't encountered any excitingly-positive experiences. I chuckled when I read robbarnes1965' comment on the Sailing alone (some questions, and some warning) thread that "... Just for fun Sheri and I tried sculling the Mac with an extended kayak paddle I have and I can report that I am glad I have the 50hp..."

In a previous thread called Sculling Oar I received useful feedback; and ended up promising to let people know if the one I made as a winter project worked when I tried it out this boating season ... so here goes. It was 9' 3" long and made from a very solid piece of 1.5"x1.5" fir with a 4'x4" piece of fir epoxied into a slot in one end. I recently tried it out while poking about the Broken Group Islands in Barkley Sound off the west coast of Vancouver Island.
1. It worked, but not well: it was too heavy and too stiff and too short and too straight.
2. In retrospect, Bill McClure on the Sculling Oar thread had some great thoughts: minimize the weight, consider hingeing the oar with a metal hinge that limits angle of unfolding, and use a piece of rope wound tightly around one stern vertical (eg. one of the mast supports or a rail seat support) as a point of attaching the oar. I used the latter of these attachment points and stood behind the pedestal with the pilot seat flipped up.
3. mastreb had an interesting comment on the Sculling Oar thread: "Re: Sculling Oar
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/gear/scullmatix/index.htm
Could use this with a pair of dinghy oars, one as the scull and one as the handle. Would be good for emergencies."
4. I am pretty sure that someone else warned me on the thread that my oar was too short.
Kittiwake

[Bill McClure]

Hi Kittwake,

Funny you should bring this up. I just stumbled across this on Craigslist: http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/boa/3243802998.html. Saw an online reprint from a 50's Popular Mechanics about it some months ago. Someone here might be enough of an engineer to scale it up to Mac size. It would beat using a 15' 2x4 as a galley oar.

Bill

[Catigale]

[Gater Dunn]

Hi Kittwake,

Funny you should bring this up. I just stumbled across this on Craigslist: http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/boa/3243802998.html. Saw an online reprint from a 50's Popular Mechanics about it some months ago. Someone here might be enough of an engineer to scale it up to Mac size. It would beat using a 15' 2x4 as a galley oar.

Bill

just drop jur rudders to horizontal and turn jur wheel back and forth

[robbarnes1965]

When we tried our sculling it was with a very long oar. I lashed it to starboard upright of the mast support and placed a towel on the seat (in lowered position) which makes a decent grove to keep it in place. The oar did flex a bit but seemed sturdy enough to provide propulsion. We did move but I would not be comfortable bringing us into the harbor like that. ANY wind or current and we would be toast. I had a slightly better success just paddling it from the side like a canoe. I am sure technique could be improved but I think I understood the basic method. It probably does take a substantially longer pole and a bigger paddle.

With a longer paddle the problem of stowage will be an issue. My paddle comes in locking sections. The diameter should probably be larger.

Realistically however, the very nature of the Mac being bought for it's dual purpose of power and sail, you already have two very good propulsion systems. Nobody is buying a Mac without the intention of having a motor. Other sailboats would suit that better. I was just curious and would probably not go to extremes to make it happen But it could be handy in very shallow or weedy situations.

[Ixneigh]

Forget sculling the powersailors. In any real world condition it's not practical. With a strong back and some skill, yes the Pardies boat, be it ever so proper, traditional, and seaworthy, might be sculled. It weighs a lot, has a keel, and has low freeboard. Once in motion, however slowly, it will keep way. I could row my yawl with a sweep oar. But not against current or wind.
You will have better luck towing the Mac with a dinghy if you must move it. Use sixty feet of light line. lash the helm or have someone steer. Failing that use a light fortress as a kedge. Keep a spool of 1/4 nylon and some gloves. Row the hook out then pull the boat over. I can do that faster then even superman can scull this yacht. It's just not the type of hull that sculls well.

[Catigale]

I think madmike had luck setting up his with oars but they must have been massively long

IIRC he lashed helm and rowed from just behind the companionway, with oarlocks on the genoa tracks

Last we heard from him he was on his way to HI

[vizwhiz]

Hi Kittwake,
Funny you should bring this up. I just stumbled across this on Craigslist: http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/boa/3243802998.html. Saw an online reprint from a 50's Popular Mechanics about it some months ago. Someone here might be enough of an engineer to scale it up to Mac size. It would beat using a 15' 2x4 as a galley oar.
Bill

I actually had the idea to make something like this for my canoe using a longer/thinner rubber or flexible plastic fin (think diving fins) for the blade instead of metal...interesting to see that someone has apparently done it already! That just means it should work, right?

I like Ixneigh's idea of using the dinghy to tow the Mac...I've done it once or twice to move a larger power boat around a docking area, and I think that's the most practical...unless, of course, you don't have a dinghy.

Realistically however, the very nature of the Mac being bought for it's dual purpose of power and sail, you already have two very good propulsion systems. Nobody is buying a Mac without the intention of having a motor. Other sailboats would suit that better. I was just curious and would probably not go to extremes to make it happen But it could be handy in very shallow or weedy situations.

Not to hijack the thread...but I wonder (sometimes) how practical the backup-of-a-backup-of-a-backup becomes...? And is it a matter of practicality, survivability, or simply fancy (all of which are absolutely valid reasons, IMHO). I start to think about "what if...?" so much sometimes, and try to cover all the bases, that I get stressed and have to remind myself that this is a PLEASURE boat! But seriously, even if only for the fanciful effect of sculling up to the dock while others look on...sounds like a fun idea to work on. Can't wait to see the videos!

[Bill McClure]

Is it just me, then? I've been in more than one boat on more than one occasion when there was no wind and the outboard wouldn't start. Usually, it's 100' feet from the dock, so something quick and easy to deploy is the goal.

Towing with the dinghy works well for long distances. I know a guy who towed a 35'+ boat over 300 miles. He was in the dinghy with the dog, and his wife was in the cockpit with the kids. They are still married.

[robbarnes1965]

With a Mac, you are more likely to be the one doing the towing for some one else. With record low water levels this year, a lot of keel-boats are in the muddy bottom at the club. I have already towed out a few of my slip mates. My engine did get weed choked once already though and that's why I considered the sculling.

[Kittiwake]

Is it just me, then? I've been in more than one boat on more than one occasion when there was no wind and the outboard wouldn't start. Usually, it's 100' feet from the dock, so something quick and easy to deploy is the goal. ....

That was my thinking Bill. As usual, the responses on this site sure are interesting and come from relevant experience. I must admit, I had not thought of towing with a rowed dinghy, and robbarnes1965 your oar tie-off point sounds like a nice approach. vizwhiz I think your point is well-taken: I guess one should not let an obsessive search for fail-safe boating cramp one's style. Having said that, I'm currently amusing myself building a wood support that I could (theoretically!) quickly lash in place to take my 2.5 HP kicker if my 60 HP E-tec quits on a west-coast-breaking-surf-lee-shore (the Admiral rolls her eyes and goes through a skit of us trying this, complete with predicted shouted instructions - oh ye of little faith).
Ixneigh you may well have put your finger on a key issue: hard to beat the drift of a mac in wind.
I will continue a peaceful search for a workable sculling oar for Macs ... and let all know of any success.
Kittiwake

[Catigale]

Someone proposed a nice simple T bracket that would replace a rudder, drop into the SS rudder bracket, and mount a short shaft small motor as a backup. I liked it as we are all much more likley to have a short shaft motor on board as a tender motor than the 'correct' long or extra long shaft sail drive outboard....

[Kittiwake]

Someone proposed a nice simple T bracket that would replace a rudder, drop into the SS rudder bracket, and mount a short shaft small motor as a backup. I liked it as we are all much more likley to have a short shaft motor on board as a tender motor than the 'correct' long or extra long shaft sail drive outboard....

That does sound appealing. I have been trying a variant of this - essentially a vertical plank that extends down from the starboard rail seat and rests on the swim ladder brackets, with a right-angle extension to hold our short-shaft kicker. Maybe I should test it with a disposable outboard. Come to think of it, maybe the Admiral will test it with a disposable crew member (me) if we are off a crashing-surf lee shore.
Kittiwake

[robbarnes1965]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiiayanu ... re=related Interesting vids on youtube.

[Kittiwake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiiayanu ... re=related Interesting vids on youtube.

Yes. And when one looks carefully at how the oar is attached, the attachment permits the longitudinal shaft of the oar to rotate about 40 degrees clockwise and counterclockwise so that the blade pushes water away from the stern with each stroke. This is a common feature of many successful approaches to sculling, and is achieved in various ways. The limited-hinge system mentioned by Bill McClure can achieve it by imposing a downward bend in the longitudinal shaft of the oar. So can building an oar with a downward curving shaft. I believe lashing a 4' handle along the upper side of the long shaft of a straight oar can also achieve it.
This feature was effectively absent in my stiff homemade system, although theoretically one could physically rotate the oar plus or minus 20 degrees with each sweep.
Kittiwake