Cooler or Fooler??

A forum for discussing boat or trailer repairs or modifications that you have made or are considering.
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seahouse
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Re: Cooler or Fooler??

Post by seahouse »

Hey Vizwiz! :D Your post just snuck in ahead of mine there. I noticed you wrote…
For those who want to approach this technically, if you knew what the dew point temperature inside your boat was at any time, and you could evenly drop the temperature of the air down (with any kind of cooling system) to just above that point, you would not see any moisture form inside your boat, and you would have the benefit of that temperature of "cooler" air available to make you feel better. However, that temperature difference is not always enough to make us feel better, and the dew point temperature changes relative to the outside air temp and the humidity, and trying to manage that is very very difficult because it would take determining the dew point over and over and over continuously in order to adjust the cooling system to be sure you don't drop the temperature too much. This is why air-conditioners were made to just make the air as cool as possible and just pipe the water away...because it's much easier to do.
Technically, that’s not exactly technically so! :?

It is the reduction in humidity that an air conditioner supplies that is a large part of what makes air conditioning comfortable to a living thing. It does this by increasing the rate of evaporation from the skin which is moist. It’s what is referred to when we talk about the “humidex”.

A person will be much more comfortable at a higher temperature when the humidity is low than they would be if the humidity is high.

During a high school trip to Spain in the summertime I experienced this first-hand. It was during a heat wave there and the streets of Madrid (which is a city in the middle of a dry desert) were crowded as most people were walking on the shady side of the street. Being from the Great Lakes Region (and thus used to swelteringly long hot humid summers) we were quite comfortable on the less-crowded sunny side of the Madrid street because of the dry heat.

Maintaining a “temperature-dew point spread” (that’s what you are referring to) is what you want to do if you want to prevent fog (or even precipitation) from forming in the air, but you want to really maximize, not minimize that spread to maximize comfort in an A/C scenario.

It might have some effect on the condensation on objects that are below ambient temperature, as you suggest, and, on a boat, the part of the hull that is in the water is often cooler than other surfaces, so condensation would happen there too if the temperature-dew point spread is not kept high enough.

Cheers! – Brian. :wink:
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Catigale
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Re: Cooler or Fooler??

Post by Catigale »

I ve read on the Internet that if you ground the cooler fooler box, it lessens the lightening strike probability by capturing all the charge inside....haven't you guys heard about charging your cooling system? Same concept...

While we are debunking myths here, btw its about time for a post on using a lake water exchanger based AC unit again...
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Chinook
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Re: Cooler or Fooler??

Post by Chinook »

If you find yourself in a high heat/low humidity area, the best low cost/low energy demand solution I've found is a simple spray bottle, filled with water, and a battery powered fan. Spraying with water and maintaining an evaporative breeze does a remarkably good job at helping you cool down. Of course, occasionally going for a quick swim is also a good option.
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Re: Cooler or Fooler??

Post by vizwhiz »

Seahouse - you are correct if you are referring to comfort level, etc., and I assume you are keying off of my last sentence about why air conditioners were built like that...yada yada. :wink: And yes, you are absolutely correct in your technical assessment otherwise...assuming sufficient cooling capacity and the ability to drop the humidity level in the whole "room"...which is another challenge in a boat with poorly sealed hatchways and such...

But I was talking about the limits of cooling inside a boat like ours, with an assumed "insufficient" cooling system (like the foolercoolerbudooler), with the primary concern being to keep the moisture content of the air from condensing on "things" inside the boat. I was assuming the opposite of your technical analysis, that you could NOT significantly drop or control the total humidity level in the boat, and could only drop the temperature (which essentially increases relative humidity unfortunately). So if you can keep the temp above the ambient dew point in those conditions, the moisture in the air will stay where it is - in the air. If you allow...things...in the boat to get below that temperature, you'll start to see condensation on those "things". This becomes perceived as moisture being added to the air, and that was what I assumed we were trying to avoid...

If you have a companionway a/c unit and you're doing a true air-conditioning job on the inside of the boat with it, then you won't notice this type of thing because you CAN dehumidify the whole room sufficiently to avoid condensation issues. It's only when you drop the temperature without de-humidifying that it is noticeable...
Catigale wrote:I ve read on the Internet that if you ground the cooler fooler box, it lessens the lightening strike probability by capturing all the charge inside....haven't you guys heard about charging your cooling system? Same concept...
Catigale, I think this only works if you have the right type of hasp locking the top of the cooler closed, and you attach the connecting cable to your henweigh... :P
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DaveB
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Re: Cooler or Fooler??

Post by DaveB »

I agree, hard enough just keeping the beer cold. Today 94 and tomorrow and next 3 mo. the same. Fans work good.
Any AC requires a Genset. Out on the water Big 12 volt fan on berth works great. Mist spray bottle works great in cockpit when little wind.
Dave

Hamin' X wrote:Moisture, or not, there simple are not enough BTU's available in a bucket of ice to do the job. The technical details are available via the forum search, or using common sense. But then, maybe you should ask me about lightning protections scams. :)

~Rich
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mastreb
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Re: Cooler or Fooler??

Post by mastreb »

RussMT wrote:Fill it with dry ice for extra cooling.
I'm pretty sure Russ was kidding, but just in case someone is thinking of trying that, do not fill a cooler with dry ice unless you want to fill your cabin with CO2 and asphyxiate. CO2 is considerably heavier than air and won't flow out of the cabin on it's own.
csm
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Re: Cooler or Fooler??

Post by csm »

I'm certainly not suggesting everyone run out and drop $300 on this unit, no way I'm doing that; but $40-50 bucks on ebay will buy everything (minus the cooler) you need to build a unit. I just happen to have about 6 "extra" coleman/igloocoolers lying about that would do for prototyping. I've already built a cooler/seat combo for our :macx: that holds ice as long as a yeti, but at 1/10th the cost, so building a highly insulated box is not an issue. Russ may have been joking about dry ice, but it will certainly help out your ice bottles. Here on the south Texas coast, the ice we buy is what I call "barely ice" as it starts melting before you can get it to your cooler. I'm assuming Florida store bought ice is equally NOT cold :P
vizwhiz
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Re: Cooler or Fooler??

Post by vizwhiz »

Well, it all starts out at 32F or less... :wink:
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Chinook
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Re: Cooler or Fooler??

Post by Chinook »

I ran into some of that "barely ice" while in the Abacos a few years ago. We'd tucked into the marina on Spanich Cay for a few days, to wait out a norther. The restaurant adjactent to the marina had burned down the year before, and so when we tried to buy ice they said no problem. A local hopped into his golf cart and drove across the island to another little restaurant and picked up a sack of cubes. By the time he drove back, in the 85 degree air, the sack looked to be more water than ice cubes. He proudly toted it down to our slip, water pouring out of the sack.

Come to think of it, we have several unique memories involving ice, like the block ice we were given by local fishermen, on Isla Coyote, Sea of Cortez. That ice was covered by stacks of slimy, stiff trigger fish. Oh well, ice is ice, and a quick rinse in the saltwater removed most of the smell. Nothing, however, can match the quality of the glacial ice we dipped from the sea at the head of Tracy Arm in Southeast Alaska. Crystall clear, and long lasting in a rum coke.
csm
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Re: Cooler or Fooler??

Post by csm »

Mmmm rum n coke n and ancient ice
Who needs ac
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Divecoz
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Re: Cooler or Fooler??

Post by Divecoz »

So CSM: How did you build a Coleman into a Yeti ?? This has been a topic here and on just about every boat board for years.
raycarlson
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Re: Cooler or Fooler??

Post by raycarlson »

i thought the reasoning behind having a boat was to jump in an take a swim to cool off in the summer time.
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dlandersson
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Re: Cooler or Fooler??

Post by dlandersson »

No, the reason for having a boat is to dispose of any excess cash. :P
raycarlson wrote:i thought the reasoning behind having a boat was to jump in an take a swim to cool off in the summer time.
csm
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Re: Cooler or Fooler??

Post by csm »

Divecoz,
I built the cooler from plywood, fiberglass, and foam board from home depot. Google west systems fiberglass and you'll find a tutorial on homebuilt coolers. It' s time consuming, but a very easy project.
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mastreb
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Re: Cooler or Fooler??

Post by mastreb »

I just pour a little water in my hair from a water bottle. Keeps me cool for a bout 20 minutes, and then I do it again. Evaporating water off the head or neck is the fastest way to bring body temperature down.

These work really well: http://www.healthandbodystore.com/neck- ... danas.html. They have an absorbant silicon gel that holds the water in longer (about 45 minutes in dry conditions, longer in humid conditions) and allows the evaporative cooling effect to last longer.

I use them primarily for motorcycle rides in the desert. I've got a vest made out of the same stuff that I use under a mesh jacket for desert rides that has kept me cold in 115 degree heat. But when they run out of water, watch out--I was fifteen minutes from Needles when my jacket went dry and my camelback was drained, and by the time I reached the shell station on the outskirts of town I was so heat exhausted I had to recover at the gas station for 90 minutes.

The don't work in still air however, so you'll need a fan inside the cabin to feel any effect, and a breeze in the cockpit.
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