Sea Worthy? Ideas and thoughts

[David Welch]

If you "HAD" to sail the carribean, across the atlantic, or around the pacific.....and could make.....say....five mods....what would they be?

I have a 26s, and they have a very nice shape for sailing and a good solid hull so I wouldn't worry about that.

Mod #1: I'd tear out the entire inner liner and glass in stringers and bulkheads and ceiling beams for better use of space and for reinforcement.

Mod #2: Completely re-deck with multiple layers of 1/2 inch plywood, epoxy and fiberglass over, and add water tight hatches.

Mod #3: Completely rebuild transom and rudder assembly and rudder.

Mod #4: Add large battery bank down center attached directly over ballast tank / center of gravity and add larger lead centerboard mounted in place.

Mod #5: Completely re-rig with heavier mast, boom, rigging, chain plate and sails.

By then… I'd quit and just buy a boat built for it.

[J.Teixeira]

Some people sails Macs like this...

X or M ...

In the Atlantic Ocean...

I mi self did cross Cap Espichel (ocean passage) in one with good weather 1.5mt waves and 20 N winds.

And that is calm sea in our open Atlantic west coast line in Portugal.

These are rare pictures of English boats in similar conditions...

2 Pictures = 1000 words





I think that the problem in open water is not only the boat itself but more the sea experience level of the average Mac user.

It is certainly not an ocean going boat. But with equipment and experienced sailors can do some ocean passages and coast line travel without problems.

Modifications... For example:

Extra large water tank in the bow is very important to stabilize the boat in 2mt waves.

Solid locker doors to keep all the weight solid stabilized in lower parts…

And most important companion way CLOSED and locked with everybody outside.

Harness and life lines…

Best Regards

Jose

Note: The European standar CE class C says costal oceanic boats is: 2mt waves... 25 Knots wind...
And Mac 26 is CE aprouved for classs C bi our demoniac bureaucrats...

[John Christian]

The Kon - Tiki sailed more than 4000 mile of open Pacific Ocean before being wrecked on a reef near shore. Possibilities for disaster exsist everywhere.

Many of these blue water crossings are done in groups which, IMHO, can greatly increase the safety of our boats.

Mod sugestion for brave souls attempting these crossings alone

[Love MACs]

Mod sugestion for brave souls attempting these crossings alone

Just remember to not light the candles and leave them unattended.



Allan

[chad22]

i have done alot of research on the mcgregor 22 and have purchased one here in the bahamas (Grand Bahama Island). I want to island hop but in order to sail between islands there are a few ocean passages one in particular is called the north east providence channel. It is about 48 miles wide between the ABACO's and ELEUTHERA, this i will have to cross and am very nervous about the ocean voyage because many people say that the mcgregor is cheaply built, but for a small crossing would this be SAFE???????. I have a little knowledge in sailing and i am confident i can make it but my most concern is will the boat??? Has anyone ever tempted a voyage like this and successfully made of course GOOD WEATHER PERMITTING ?

[Québec 1]

With good weather guaranteed, I'd sail my 26M anywhere

Le Zephyr, last summer a few minutes after I arrived in the sheltered harbour at Riviere du Loup. I had to stay at the courtesy slip at the entrance of the marina until nightfall cause it was to dangerous to go to a regular slip and the tide was low. Once the tide was out all the boats were sitting on mud flats.
http://s263.photobucket.com/albums/ii12 ... G_3147.mp4
Q1

[Divecoz]

Who are these..... many people say?
Have they owned a Mac? Any Mac?
Have The sailed a Mac ? Any Mac?
Have They Worked on a Mac? Any Mac and when I say worked I mean drilled through the hull??
48 miles ? Just over Half way from Marathon to The first Bahamian Island..
Dry Tortugas is ( depending on where you leave from) Over 80 Miles One Way..
What kind of sailor are you?
What kind of sailing have YOU done?
What are others.. in 19=21 foot boats doing in your area?

i have done alot of research on the mcgregor 22 and have purchased one here in the bahamas (Grand Bahama Island). I want to island hop but in order to sail between islands there are a few ocean passages one in particular is called the north east providence channel. It is about 48 miles wide between the ABACO's and ELEUTHERA, this i will have to cross and am very nervous about the ocean voyage because many people say that the mcgregor is cheaply built, but for a small crossing would this be SAFE???????. I have a little knowledge in sailing and i am confident i can make it but my most concern is will the boat??? Has anyone ever tempted a voyage like this and successfully made of course GOOD WEATHER PERMITTING ?

[robbarnes1965]

I am qualifying that I know sh##t about the Mac 22 and my experience is with my M. Lots of people do hops like that- in good weather with and M or X. I just met a couple ,who live aboard their MacX in the Keys and they have been going to the Bahamas and Abacos every year for 15 years or so. The shallow draft is perfect for those areas as well.

That said, Q1 is right about good weather. 48 miles is not far if the weather is good. The Mac has an engine that can help make an escape if the weather guy seems to have blown it. I would not like to be less than 50 miles from shore in a real blue water cruiser if a severe storm suddenly developed - it would be too close to avoid being beaten aground and too slow to run. But if the forecast is bad, stay sheltered. The rigging on the Macs is not burly enough for the shock-loads involved in a severe storm. Better boats have been easily destroyed by bad weather and or poor storm tactics. In addition to the standing rigging, the windows on my Mac M would never be able to withstand the force of a very large breaking wave. 1 cubic meter of water weighs a ton. Think about that the next time you stand on your deck windows. It was just not built for it. It is not necessarily cheaply built as much as built with weight in mind. It is built to be towed and sailed in often sheltered lakes. The lightness that makes it great for this is terrible for big seas. I love my Mac because I bought it to do what it was designed for.

Divecoz makes a good point. Know your abilities. I recommend this book(as I have before) as a must read for anyone attempting offshore trips. http://www.amazon.com/Storm-Tactics-Han ... 1929214472 Generally, if you have sailed a Macgregor and have to ask if it could, you are not ready.

Rob

[tango11]

I have sailed across the Atlantic 3 times on my 32 ft sailboat ( Europe-Acore-Canada), I have sailed hundred of miles off shore several times... and I have just bought a Mac26x. This is obviously not a bluewater boat and it cannot be modified to become a blue water boat. Only a few things : the mast , the stays , the chainplates are those of a dinghy: they could not stand heavy weather for a long time. The balllast is insufficient to give any comfort in a seaway. The rudder(s) mechanism is too fragile for bluewater sailing so is the drop-keel/centerboard. I am stopping here because there are so many aspects that it is not worth continuing. It is not the lenght of the boat, it is its construction: it is simply not made for that purpose. I have seen in the Acores a 22ft plywood saiboat that had sailed across the Atlantic 2 times: it was certainly not a comforable boat but it had been built for bluewater cruising. I think that sailing more than30-40 miles for a shore is really hasardous for a Mac 26, at leat I would not do it.

[Ixneigh]

Naaaooooooo not this conversation again

You can sail the thing anywhere if you are brave/ good/ lucky enough.
Period
People have crossed the Atlantic in much much less.

Are you feeling lucky?

It would be terribly uncomfortable. I been out for short stints in the gulf stream. A few hours is all I can take.
The boat would be so worn out from the constant working to be a write off.
Realize that even moderate bad weather could kill you much faster then in a more substantial boat.
Are you feeling lucky?

With say 20,000 dollars with of beef up, yes I would take the m26 offshore.
By then she would more resemble an ETAP.
The design I deem capable of it but farrrrr from ideal.

Why?

Because by the time you strengthen the yacht she will be so heavy as to loose her performance.
This boat M U S T be kept light to sail. If she's not sailing well, the dinky board won't keep her tracking well. Off to leeward you go. Planning all down wind roughts will help but she is not going to do well if she's heavy.

Why not use this great boat for what she was designed to be? A fun coastal cruiser that can do a little if everything?
No one contemplates the offshore abilities of a Boldger sharpie do they? No they admire the boat for what it is.
And ANY one who can look at one of his boats and sneer at it can sit in the yacht club Lounge and gab about "real boats" until hull freezes over. I won't listen to another word they say.

The Mac has a ton of hidden attributes that don't come to light right away. It's the funniest boat I've own yet and the best for my current use. I am using it as per the designers intents.

Those nineteen footers are ballast keeled, stoutly rigged and competently crewed or else just lucky.
Are you feeling lucky?

About the 22. I took mine from Key Largo to George town Exuma and back. Great trip. I upgraded the rigging and rudder, waterproofed the boat as much as I could and went. Nothing broke and the yacht returned in better shape then she left. I would take her again with only a weeks worth of oddball stuff like bottom paint etc.
Watch the weather. I saw several other macs over there. A few scary stories too.

If you want to have deep water ability on the cheep try any number of great 70's era boats. Forget the big outboard motor. There are no gas stations in the middle of the ocean.

Ixneigh

[bartmac]

My grandmother had a saying...."Horses for courses" and another comes to mind "don't take a knife to gunfight"....26X & M are trailer boats with a specific duty in mind...probably a good idea to stick to enclosed waters...bays,lakes,rivers etc

[dlandersson]

The Mac 26X and M construction makes very good use of the known engineering strengths of (not chopped) fiberglass. It is MUCH stronger than most people (sailors included) realize.

Having written that, it is not designed/engineered to be a blue water sailing vessel. Chainplates, windows, etc. will not hold up to Mother Nature in a bad mood. For the price of upgrading, rent a suitable sailboat.

What value do you place on the lives of yourself and your crew?

OK, I hear lots of people say that mac is simply a lake and river boat. I am wondering how sea worthy it world be? I just saw two interesting stories that make me wonder. The first was a man in a 22 ft rowboat that went from sapin to the carribean in 7 months. and trhe next (http://gmy.news.yahoo.com/v/8908099) is a group of men that built a sail boat outr of trash and are halfway across the pacific. I mean I would guess if you mad the mac hatches water tight and added extra bilges...I would expect it be pretty safe.???

So, could mac sail to bermuda safely? Bahamas? Through the eastern carribean islands (say from bahamas down through the virgin islands)? Around halifx/new foundland/labrador?

So....for discussion sake.........

If you "HAD" to sail the carribean, across the atlantic, or around the pacific.....and could make.....say....five mods....what would they be?

[Divecoz]

Lots of good points made.. She is made well ( the) s.d.x.m. but she is a trailer sailor.. she sleeps 4 to 6 .. Off Shore ? Using some common sense ? No Problem..! Lots of these boats go off shore everyday.. Dry Tortuga's and The Bahamas.. Even big boats .. 80+% of those sailors use care and watch for weather windows.. The Big Blowhards never leave the slip! Next time your walking the docks look at the growth on some of.... maybe many of those Big Blue Water Boats hahahaha.... I sail out of North Point Harbor 1500 Boats.. My is one of the smallest.. If she's blowing.. Very few go out..half that do? Turn around and come right back hahahaha Big Blowhards.. But ...would I be foolish enough to take mine even to the BVI's?? NO way I have nothing to prove.. There are 1000's and 1000's and 1000's of Blowhards on Big Boats Big $$$$ blablablabla Most who have yet to make it even 50 miles from shore.. All Talk NO Walk.. Let them talk.. Talk is cheap..
We hear the same trash talk about motorcycles.. But I have made a few Hundred dollars racing $40=$60K WCC and OCC and Even a Bourget.. 80 Cu in. beat them in a 1/8 mile on a my $10K "near" stock Yammy 1100 V Star.. Lots of blowgards out there guys.... let em blow..

[Mac26Mpaul]

These threads go round and round THe Mac was designed as, and will always be, a protected water family fun boat..
Just my .2 cents, but anyone who thinks they are going to be spending lots of time crossing oceans should probably buy a yacht.... especially if they have family... Life is too short as it is if you ask me

[capncarp]

Corkscrew,
I'm looking at the MAR/APR 2002 issue of Small Craft Adviser. There is quite abit about the 26X in this issue. A man names Shane St. Clair is being interviewed about small craft. St. Clair apparently owned Moonraker Developement. He states they used the X in the South Pacific to deliver medical supplies between the Marshall Islands and the Republic of Kiribati. A distance of 500 miles. He said he never had anything break. He liked the boat.
As for the mods 1. thicker windows -it won't do much good if the hatches are sealed up tight when the windows blow.
2. sealed hatches
3. mast braces- that's a pretty light mast
4. increased water supply
5. increased electrical supply-batteries or solor
6. emergency rudder steering
7. storm jib
8. sea anchor (chute)
And yes the Mac sails to the Bahamas all the time.
capncarp, 99