What's going on with our new 26M ?

[Windy Miller]

We have a new 26M with a new 60 etec with a 14x11 prop. On flat calm days with no wind and full ballast it works OK. Just OK - the Etec sounds a bit whiney and maxed our at WOT (~4900-5100 rpm) but otherwise it's ok.

Then today we're coming back home from a quiet morning out. Ballast full, rudders up, keel up. A little choppy sea, doing 6-7 knots only on power, and a following wind of 10-11 knots and I'm starting to get slightly concerned here ... not knowing what it was doing.....so very difficult to control - every rolling wave and it would simply just spin starboard into the trough of the wave, then about turn with the next wave (these were NOT breaking waves so you get the picture - fairly benign conditions for a sailboat). We didn't have the sails up because it felt so unstable with power. Tried dropping the keel a foot or two to stop the rapid dance to starboard but didn't help. Same with rudders /keel at lower speed. The engine really did sound like it was in first gear. The boat sped up a bit down the low (0.5 to 1m max) wave faces then just chugged along.Didn't feel at all stable with more throttle. Very hard to steer and judge the rotation of the boat with each aft wave set, especially with such a dinky wheel. Absolutely knackered at the end of an hour of getting home. GPS track looks like a badly tacked snake trail. Captain confused and struggling to work out whether this boat is a keeper or not for the family. Felt much more comfortable on lasers and sea kayaks.

Is there anything I am doing wrong here because we didn't feel that this was the kind of enjoyable experience for such reasonable coastal conditions (especially since everyone else in their powerboats were relaxed and enjoying), or is this THE Mac experience ? Not a good start for giving confidence and getting the kids to enjoy the boat... and we haven't taken her sailing with the kids yet.....!

BTW... is the mast supposed to constantly be in a rotated position at dock Every time I twist it back in alignment with the bow, it drift back toward port side, despite the fact that the shrouds are all in the same tension positions.

Thanks for your help and experience - all appreciated !

Windy

[Crikey]

Windy,
Several possibilities come to my mind as this kind of behavior rarely gets a mention by anyone with some MacGregor time under their belt. Firstly it's a little hard to visualize what a 'slightly choppy' sea represents. I doubt too that you would find a consensus on that one.
Boat loading: For the near 'Broaching' you are experiencing - do you have too much weight forward? This would, I think, result in this behavior especially running in a following sea without ballast.
Mast bias: This could also be a similar clue to too much weight on one side a/o forward. Take a look at your water line (plimsol?) and see how the hull sits with a normal gear and crew load properly positioned.
Steering play: Test for this and if found excessive work towards correcting it by referencing some of the mods present on this site. Mine (IMHO) was notoriously bad at purchase, and my particular fixes made a huge difference in how much work I had to do at the helm as well as overall responsiveness. An important consideration when conditions are not perfect.
It is always a good idea to operate with full ballast under less than ideal conditions, if powering. A full on broach in an unloaded, mast up condition could prove very hazardous.
Your attempts with rudders and partial keel are in the ballpark, as long as you keep an eye on the boats speed.

Ross

[Windy Miller]

Ross
Thanks for your reply. I'm perplexed now since the boat was absolutely fully ballasted (not a drop sloshing round and topped up to the drain plug almost) and no weight at all forward - completely empty boat apart from a few tools, life rings etc and myself and wife and one snapped-in small child perched in the stern cockpit. Water line looks fine both port and starboard.......

I'll test the steering play next time out.

WM

[robbarnes1965]

Just confirming Ross's comments and that it is not normal Mac behavior for those conditions. Sounds like you boat is acting more like what happened to me at 40+kts with 6ft waves behind me. The conditions you described are actually my dream sailing conditions - maybe even a bit light.

[Crikey]

Just a further thought for comments by others: Under these kind of conditions, even considering a full ballast - can a Mac be too light without having the usual 'other' gear on board?

[Ixneigh]

The boat is squirrly In those conditions. It is something that you can tweak a bit but otherwise you'll have to get used to it. Load some weight in the stern. Water jugs or something. Also going down wind fast enough to have the stern squat slightly might help too. It is easy to oversteer these boats under power. After a few months of use I don't think it will be so problematic. My tweak consisted of underwater skegs I installed myself.
Give the boat a chance if you bought it for its intended use. it's much differnt then other boats in terms of feel.

Ixneigh

[Tomfoolery]

We have a new 26M with a new 60 etec with a 14x11 prop. On flat calm days with no wind and full ballast it works OK. Just OK - the Etec sounds a bit whiney and maxed our at WOT (~4900-5100 rpm) but otherwise it's ok.

Not what you asked, but it sounds overpropped if WOT is only 4900-5000. Should be 5500-6000, per their online specs. That's a big prop with a lot of pitch.

As far as near-broaching, I have an , and I have noticed it's a bit squirrely under those conditons (compared to a keel boat, at least), but not as bad as you've described. Hard to tell what is was like out there, though, without being there, or seeing video, or whatever. I don't use my rudders under those conditions normally, but you might want to check the alignment between them, and between the rudders and the OB.

Edit: Just noticed (reading challenged) that your rudders are up. Might want to try one or both down. Since your rudders were up, I guess alignment wouldn't be an issue, now would it?

[Kittiwake]

We have the same boat and motor, but 2010 model.

I have experienced something akin to the "... very difficult to control - every rolling wave ..." phenomenon you describe, when running downwind off the west coast of Vancouver Island in what I would consider heavy seas (not breaking) with a tailwind of say 15 knots. In this case I was running for cover as the seas were increasing beyond my comfort level. Other small craft were largely doing the same. I had full ballast, no rudders or keel down, and no mast & rigging. The waves were some 3' or more (peak-to-trough). I was interested at the time to see a ~23' offshore sport-fishing boat (eg. a Trophy) go by me at the time, which was having much less difficulty holding a nice line (same direction as me). I attributed this difference to the fact that the sport-fisher was almost 2x as heavy, shorter, and deep-V-hulled-stem-to-stern. The Mac is probably too light and designed like a 'sled' hull at the rear, to force its way though that kind of wave action (the waves coming from the stern just kind of floated the Mac up and over their crest).

I have not encountered your "BTW... is the mast supposed to constantly be in a rotated position at dock " experience. Ours seems to be pretty well willing to sit where it is placed (although clearly in rolling waves, when the sail is not up, the mast can rotate passively back and forth through some 30 degrees as the boat rolls).

Overall I agree with the above posts of other owners. The 26M has a hull more analogous to that of a racing sled than a displacement hull; and it is very light. It does take some getting used to (as suggested above), and its comfort level in offshore-like conditions will be non-ideal.

Kittiwake
ps. my prop is an Evinrude 13.75x13 supplied stock with the boat & motor new; and this has worked very well for me: we achieve 19 mph.

[Québec 1]

Try putting the rudders down ! Usually I start by the real simple stuff when I have a problem...like is the kill switch on

Q1

[Terry]

BTW... is the mast supposed to constantly be in a rotated position at dock Every time I twist it back in alignment with the bow, it drift back toward port side, despite the fact that the shrouds are all in the same tension positions.
Windy

Mine does this all the time and I find it a bit annoying, especially when I have to raise the mainsail. I have rigged up a line with pulley blocks going from the mast vang attachment to those fairleads on the forward stantions in order to play the rotation of the mast from the cockpit, works pretty good.
I also think you are overpropped given the rpms you report. Take the prop in to a shop and have it re-pitched down to 14X10.
I had the same experience as you with a following wind and following seas, my stern was constantly pushed around and I ended up either starboard or port and had to throttle the boat back straight after every wave I surfed. (I did it for 5 hours) Sounds like standard boat characteristics to me. Grin and bear it.

[Kittiwake]

What made you put a 14x11 prop on the boat? On the site I viewed it didn't even seem to be a standard option. If I understand correctly, since the pitch is only 11" it should rev even higher than a 13" pitch. Am I missing something? - ah, on edit, I see the answer is in the definition of "overpropped" at a 14" diameter.
Kittiwake

[C Striker]

My M with an e-tec 60 also has a 13.75 X 13 prop. It came with a 13X 13 and I had the same low rms issue at WOT until the dealer sent me the 13.75. ( I now have an emergency backup )

My boat didn't want to turn to starboard when new if there was any wind on that side. I had to tweak the main steering bar to achieve the most possible travel. Problem solved.

I think there are 2 distinct types of new M boats. Ones that are delivered with all the parts assembled, and ones that are delivered after being tweaked. I got the assembled variety. I would guess it depends on the dealer. For instance, my new boat came with duct tape on my exterior speakers so they would stay on while trailering. I freaked out and got 4 brand new speakers where duct tape isn't required. ( They are in my garage, more spares ) I simply put 2 screws in the gap and the tape was no longer necessary.

I may be way off here, but just speaking from my experience. Bottom line is, I got a great boat at a great price. I enjoy the sense of accomplishment from making everything exactly how I want it. I am learning all about my boat which will help me get out of a pinch. I am in no hurry to get everything how I want it. I do one thing very well, and then I move on. And when The C. Striker is all ready, I will be a seasonal bartender who winters in the Bahamas.

Now I will go reasearch the post titled highfield levers. The time has come to upgrade the bow. I have this great forum to do the legwork, and a solid shell of the boat that will be someday perfect (for me.)

Following seas can still be tricky coming into a well protected channel though. Not so much steering, but motor drag. I try to match the wave speed and surf along on a wave as long as possible. It's quite fun, actually! And after I lose the wave I don't have to paddle back out to surf another one.

Hope this helps someone, sometime.

Erik

[Highlander]

You'll get used to it u maybe over steering & then overcorrecting I put a 20" wheel on my boat that certanly takes the hard work out of it 1/4 turn about equals 1 turn on the 15" wheel
Here I am sailing Q1 boat in 10-15' swells in a following sea & tide & tossed his sailing speed record out the window
http://s844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 010072.mp4

J

[Crikey]

10 - 15' swells?

Funny how everything gets larger, the more you brag about it!

[Kittiwake]

You'll get used to it u maybe over steering & then overcorrecting I put a 20" wheel on my boat that certanly takes the hard work out of it 1/4 turn about equals 1 turn on the 15" wheel
Here I am sailing Q1 boat in 10-15' swells in a following sea & tide & tossed his sailing speed record out the window
http://s844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 010072.mp4
J

Highlander I assume you had all boards up on that run: what was your speed? Oop, OK I listened again and got it this time.
Windy, as you know, carrying a bit of canvas will greatly settle the lurching; but I can see why you would be hesitant to do so when testing a new boat under those conditions ... especially given the single reef point.
Heh heh, Highlander if you tell Crikey that the camera never does justice to wave height I will believe you ... what is it they say?: 'o ye of little faith.'
Kittiwake
ps. and the web site suggested by trdprotruck on next page is sure appropriate