Anchoring with a "Pointer" Sail

[awolfe]

1)Has anyone had experieince with this sail?

http://www.bannerbaymarine.com

2a)Is there a consensus on a best way to minimize 'sailing' while anchored?

and/or,

2b)Is there a previous thread on this I could reference?

Thanks,
Tom
'98 26x
Annie's Song
Denver

[Pouw Geuzebroek]

Very intersting Tom. A steadying sail was frequently used by ships that had an extra (second) stern mast, ships like a Ketch have these. Never seen it attached to the backstay. Looks like a must have to me when you do a lot of anchoring. However, I am not sure that it would work on a Mac with our slightly angled backstay that leads to the starboard aft side instead of midship aft.

[edurbin]

No experience with the pointer sail, but like others, am looking for a simple solution to stop the Macgregor from sailing at anchor. My next effort will be to try anchoring from the eyebolt, rather than the deck level. The closer proximity to water level ought to reduce the "roll" each time the boat pulls from side to side. I figure the Macgregors have a large freeboard for their weight - must be contributing to the problem. I'll be trying the eyebolt attachment point next weekend.

Cheers
Craig

[Chip Hindes]

I was going to summarize, but this thread covers it all:

Anchor Rriding Sail

[Pouw Geuzebroek]

Chip did you noticed any difference swinging to port or starboard side, due to the angled backstay? or where both sides reduced with 40%

[Andy26M]

I've been looking at this problem for the 26M - no backstay to put up a riding sail.

I've heard/read that "rocker stoppers" work to some extent - both to mitigate the roll and the swing. I haven't brought myself to spend the money on them yet.

In non-tidal water (i.e. you don't have the current switching direction in the middle of the night) you might consider a second anchor off the stern. It can be tricky anchoring from both ends, worthwhile to read up on some ideas/techniques if you haven't tried it.

- AndyS

[Chip Hindes]

Chip did you noticed any difference swinging to port or starboard side, due to the angled backstay? or where both sides reduced with 40%

I didn't measure it in each direction, only the total swing. However, all anchor riding sails are designed to be "flown" at an oblique angle to the centerline. The Mac with assymetrical backstay simply dictates which direction off center it's flown.

[Jack O'Brien]

Tom:

The pointer #1 from Banner Bay Marine is about 22 square feet for $230. I have one from Sailrite (I think) of 15 square feet (I think) but I only see kits on the Sailrite site now. $80 for 12.5 sq. ft., $105 for 20 sq. ft. Items #90011 & #90012. www.sailrite.com

I have flown it from the backstay and sheeted to the port winch. It may have helped but the boat still sailed so much the sail would luff and flap and drove me crazy.

If you have constant wind and no reversing current, two bow anchors with 90 degrees between them work well.

[Rich Smith]

I found this article on riding sails pretty interesting...they show how you can move a standard riding sail further aft by using a pole...

http://www.boatus.com/goodoldboat/horsing.htm

[Paul Zimmerman]

No Solutions, but here's a couple of semi weird ideas I've been playing with but havn't got around to trying them out.
Riding Sail- seems like a double winged sail would tend to reduce the swings further than a single one. Each sail with the forward edge on or near the boat centerline and the back part of the sail flared to port and the other one flaired to starboard. The idea is to get the sails to load and unload with a little bit of swing of the boat. eg as the boat yaws to port the port sail is unloaded or luffed and the Starboard sail is loaded heavily. The sails could be a single sail shaped like a butterfly or could be separate. almost any geometry could be made to work as long as its in a V with the point forward. Don't know where and how to secure other than boom, topping lift, back stay and/or stern cleats or ?? Obviously the closer to the stirn, the better it would work.
Second wierd idea would use a spreader like pole on the bow maybe 6-8 feet across with cable or non stretch line forward from each end to a bridle ring out about 6-8 feet. Anchor line secures to the ring and to the front sampson post. The idea is as soon as the boat swings a bit off center the anchor force is moved from the center of the boat to the end of the pole away from the anchor which provides a bigger righting force on the front of the boat. This force since it is significantly off center of the boat, magnifies the righting force on straightening the boat. The spreader pole would obviously have to be strong and secured with non stretch lines both to the rear of the bow area and vertically downward to the bow ring. There's probably some fairly simple way to do one of these, but havn't got to it yet.

[Frank C]

H'lo Paul!

Good to see you've come up for air! Just last week I posted your name for someone who was looking for dive info in this Scuba thread.

The spreader pole sounds interesting from a leverage perspective, but I'm unsure how you'd stabilize it out in front of the forestay. It obviously couldn't work behind the forestay. Anyway, once the anchor rode slipped to either end of the pole, seems like the prevailing wind would just hold it to that end. I'm wondering if the simple idea of a side-bridle accomplishes this a lot easier ... FWIW. EDIT: "side-bridle" as fully described by Mac26X, just below.

(Paul, you may want to check out the topic of Upcoming Events ... a Channel Is cruise is planned for July).

[MAC26X]

Often you can stop the "hunting" at anchor by running by using a second line that runs from the main anchor line, secured about 15' down the anchor line from the bow. Attach this line to the stern and take in the line to create a "bridle" with the hull at an angle to the wind. You have just made the large freeboard of the Mac 26 X/M into a pointer sail.

[norbert]

My next effort will be to try anchoring from the eyebolt, rather than the deck level.

try this: bring your anchor out and attach the line to one of the bow cleats as usual. then take a 2nd (thinner) line, make a bowline knot, hang it round the other cleat, bring the line thru the eyebolt, round the anchor line, back thru the eyebolt again, then pull it tight and belay it on the clamp. the anchor line passes now at the eyebolt. this way you have not to manage with the eybolt while the ship is not yet secure, and you do not risk to loose you line and anchor when starting over.

[edurbin]

Thanks Norbert,
I understand what you mean. I'll try your idea just to see if it helps the anchoring problem. If it looks like a solution then I'll make a permanent short line from the eyebolt to the cleat, with a ring on the end to help with attachment to the anchor line. That way the short line with ring can be attached to the mooring or anchor line while it is still secured at the other cleat. This way, I don't have to hang upside down to get a line through the eyebolt twice.

Have you tried the lower anchoring point ?

Cheers
Craig

[norbert]

I'll make a permanent short line from the eyebolt to the cleat, with a ring on the end to help with attachment to the anchor line. That way the short line with ring can be attached to the mooring or anchor line while it is still secured at the other cleat. This way, I don't have to hang upside down to get a line through the eyebolt twice.

great idea, i'll try this too.

Have you tried the lower anchoring point ?

yes, i had the impression that this makes anchoring more quiet. not so much anchoring experience yet as i always used to sail with my pet. will do it more frequently now without him.