Towing: Mazda CX-9 vs Nissan Pathfinder

[Crikey]

I tow with a Ford Escape 6cyl AWD/FWD. A little squirrelly because of the short wheelbase, but powerful enough for most hills without going into passing gear. If any automatic can find time to cycle into overdrive on the flat, then its got to be saving you gas. Higher on the power curve means you're producing more power, and burning more gas to boot. It's changing gears many thousands of times in normal use anyway - so what's a couple of extra cycles during a boat haul?

Ross

[Catigale]

Shifting back and forth on an automatic used to be the death sentence, but on modern, electronic transmissions, the timing is retarded on the engine momentarily on each shift - this reduces that CLUNK transfer of power that used to burn out the bands..

My Eurovan transmission drops down, and the revs take about a second to come back - nice and smooth. Definitely a case of technology getting better. Ever notice there are a lot fewer transmission shops in business now??



I do drop it down into third on the 3 long hill pulls going to Cape, only because I know it needs to be in that gear and it makes me feel like a big trucker when I do that. My puny 200 HP motor keeps the rig a 55mph up the hills, and 60 mph on the flat without a problem.

The motor is actually the narrow angle AUDI V6 engine so it has pretty good torque for its size, to give credit to those Teutonic engineers....

[moondancer]

Kittywake check with your vehicle manufacturer for recommendations about shifting out of OD. Previous tow vehicle was a 03 Dodge 3/4 ton pickup, quad cab, 2wd posi, yes it had the hemi. No problem towing and on the flats or gentle hills the OD stayed on. If the trans dropped out of OD on a gentle hill I would shut it off until I crested the hill. When I saw a good hill before me I would lock out OD as I started up it. Gas mileage was not affected too much. Current tow beast is a 11 Dodge 3/4 ton, crew cab. 4wd pickup, yes it has the hemi. Better gas milage than the old one when not towing and 9 mpg with boat fully loaded on back road in the hills of CT. Still breaking in motor, 8000 miles, so don't know when the governor will kick in but more than enough power to do the job. On old truck it shifted into OD at 105mph and governor shut down air to engine at 110mph, about 5800rpm. Though with the 4wd front end on the new truck I don't think I would be as comfortable as before at those speeds.
Mike thinking of projects he put off last year that need to be done this year.

[Sea Wind]

I have a 4wd Honda Pilot which comes standard with towing capacity of 4500lbs. The manual has the following table:

number of maximum total maximum tongue
occupants trailer weight weight
2 4500 450
3 4300 400
4 4100 330
5 4000 270
6 3800 190
7 2000 100
8 towing not recommended
It assumes that passengers are 150lbs and 15lbs of cargo per passenger. For a family of four that is 60lbs of cargo which is nothing if you carry a cooler, tools and gear in the trunk. If we take the more realistic 5 passenger capacity, then the trailer weight is 4000 lbs, but the tongue weight is only 270lbs, way below the recommended10%. My boat and tandem axle weight about 4000 with mostly empty water and gas tanks.
Adding any new equipment or carrying and inflatable in the trunk would max out my rig.

Sea Wind

[mastreb]

I have a 4wd Honda Pilot which comes standard with towing capacity of 4500lbs. The manual has the following table:

number of maximum total maximum tongue
occupants trailer weight weight
2 4500 450
3 4300 400
4 4100 330
5 4000 270
6 3800 190
7 2000 100
8 towing not recommended
It assumes that passengers are 150lbs and 15lbs of cargo per passenger. For a family of four that is 60lbs of cargo which is nothing if you carry a cooler, tools and gear in the trunk. If we take the more realistic 5 passenger capacity, then the trailer weight is 4000 lbs, but the tongue weight is only 270lbs, way below the recommended10%. My boat and tandem axle weight about 4000 with mostly empty water and gas tanks.
Adding any new equipment or carrying and inflatable in the trunk would max out my rig.

Sea Wind

The rate of tow capacity decrease to lbs. of cargo in the truck is decreasing faster than the increase in tongue weight of a more loaded boat, so the correct answer in this case is to keep the truck unloaded except for people and carry all of your cargo in the cabin of the boat, right on or just aft of the trailer axle.

[gryff57]

I haven't towed a MacGregor (yet) but my 2005 Nissan Pathfinder had no trouble with a 3500 lb camping trailer that we used to have. It has a button on the shifter to turn off overdrive if you find it's shifting in and out too much. I like the Pathfinder (previously owned an Isuzu Trooper for 11 years). Not too big, but big enough for reasonable towing jobs. I hardly notice my 1988 Chrysler Buccaneer 18 when towing that (800 lbs).

[DaveB]

I am hauling a MacX with Tandum trailer fully loaded 4500 lbs with a 1999 Ford XLT F150, 6 cylinder with a standard trans. rated at 2000 lbs towing for 3 years. I Plan on buying a New Ford F150 with the new 3.7 litter 6 cylinder with 278 lbs tork and 302 hp.
Rated tow 5500-6100 lbs. Highway 23 mpg, town 19 mpg. Haven't seen the gas milage on towing a 4500 lb load.
Thats better than my 20 mpg. highway and 15 mpg around town with my current 4.2 litter v6. I get 12mpg towing the boat on flat land in florida.
Dave

I don't have a Macgregor yet, hopefully next season, but I will need to change our second family car. Due to other factors (2 children, 2-6 hours drive trips to country with gear) it will have to be a 7-seater SUV or maybe a minivan (not my favored option), 2-3 years old used. Because I hope to buy Macgregor 26X or 26M (maybe split ownership) next season I have to consider my car options so it could safely tow Macgregor on highway for 2-6 hour trips.

I know Nissan Pathfinder is rated for 6000 lbs and looks like a good candidate, but it's less than perfect car. Most attractive car in this segment seems to be Mazda CX-9 (4WD). I'm a big Mazda fan and own Mazda6, and I really like CX-9. However it's rated for only 3500 lbs., which seems to be barely enough, and considering family and cargo in the car - too low. I found out that in Australia the same car is rated for 4400 lbs, which seems enough to tow Mac with family and gear in the car. Looks like it's the case with many cars - european and world ratings are sometims twice as high as US/Canada ratings for the same car.

I'd appreciate informed opinions on the following:

- Is CX9 adequate for safe Mac towing?
- Will I have insurance problem in Ontario if towed weight is above rated capacity?
- Would aftermarket hitch improve matters? Seems to be the most likely case anyway, as the used CX9 would not likely have a hitch receiver.
- What is atypical weight of loaded Mac X or M with trailer? I assume 3700 to 4000 lbs from what I read here.
- Opinions about Pathfinder?
- Any other advice?

[mastreb]

Got to put a plug in for my 3.5L V6 Diesel GL350. 26 MPG highway, 21MPG around town, and honestly gets 21MPG towing the Mac. Rated for 7500lbs, includes "Trailer Stabilization" which detects torque effects from the trailer and uses the vehicle brakes independently to immediately damp any kind of instability. Every once in a while you feel it working. We routinely tow at 65 (required here in SoCal or you'll get hit) like there's nothing behind us at all. Just a fantastic SUV all the way around, and frankly not all that much more expensive than any SUV with a comparable tow rating.

[moondancer]

Dave I am not sure if the F150 is 1/2 or 3/4 ton. But if you plan on towing a longer distance than a couple of hours check out the specs on a 1/2 versus a 3/4 ton. My Dodges came pretty close to same price when trans cooler, bigger alternator, larger cooling system options was added to 1/2 ton price. Plus you usually get a bigger rearend, (not junk in your trunk) larger capacity suspension and a better handling tow vehicle overall. I am not sure about the other brands but it is worth checking into.
Mike

[RobertB]

I use a Volvo XC-70 (2005). Car has good power/torque, a long wheelbase, weighs 4000 pounds, and great brakes (able to stop trailer on highway without brakes - trailer brake line failure). That said, the car is rated for 3300 pounds pulling and 150 pounds tounge load. The European specs for the same car are 3900 pounds towing. Appears to me there are some legal liability issues and possibly different trailer requirements (I believe I have read that outside of CONUS, trailers are generally two axle which results in less tounge loading).
I try to be careful about tongue loading - too much and it may stress the car, too little and the trailer sways.
I use a Volvo factory trailer hitch.
Generally only one passenger and only light gear when towing since I try to keep loading on rear suspension (and really the tires) reasonable even though the tounge load is about 400 pounds.
All that, I am currently adding a second axle to the trailer in order to lighten up the tounge load and give me more flexibility in loading the boat (next mod, move the Dometic electric cooler forward to opposite the head).

Suggest looking into the rating on tires - my research has shown that they are generally the most likely part to be overloaded when trailering.

Ohh----I plan to buy a F-150 this next summer

[DaveB]

Mike,
I live in flat land Florida and the F150 3.7 litter 302 hp and 278 tork is about the same as the newer 4.6 litter V8 that Ford discontuied in 2010.
I use the boat 2 times a month and usually to a ramp 4 miles away but do the 180 mile to the Keys 2 times a year or do the Beer Cruise a 10 hr drive.
The 3.7 has the best mile per gal. and will haul my 4500 lb boat/tamdem Trailer with ease without any Tow package.
Those in big hills should do the 3.5 turbo or 5 litter engine.(over 5000 lbs towing Ford recomends the Tow Package)
Towing a Mac X with a aluminum Tandem Axel is easy even with my 4.2 v6 standard trans rated at 2000 lbs towing.
I like the 19 mpg around town and the 23-25 on highway with the 3.7.
I would never own a Mac.X or M with a single Axel.
Dave

Dave I am not sure if the F150 is 1/2 or 3/4 ton. But if you plan on towing a longer distance than a couple of hours check out the specs on a 1/2 versus a 3/4 ton. My Dodges came pretty close to same price when trans cooler, bigger alternator, larger cooling system options was added to 1/2 ton price. Plus you usually get a bigger rearend, (not junk in your trunk) larger capacity suspension and a better handling tow vehicle overall. I am not sure about the other brands but it is worth checking into.
Mike

[romandesign]

Just in case someone would find my experience useful:

We've just done a test drive on all relevant 7-seat SUVs today: Nissan Pathfinder, Mazda CX9, Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander. My opinion is subjective of course, but here it is for what it's worth:

Nissan Pathfinder: I have to say that Nissan (which has the best towing rating - 6000 lbs) drives like a big truck. Driving experience is by a long shot worst of the bunch. I was shocked, my wife even refused to go on the highway. That's not something we'd enjoy to drive. Rear seats are a joke - worst of the bunch as well. It's a good rugged off-roader, but driving it in a city is terrible. It drives easy, but you feel like you're driving a tank.

Toyota Highlander does not have any cargo room left with rear seats up (even our stroller wouldn't fit, which kinda kills the deal), although it drives very well. Getting into the rear seats is extremely uncomfortable from the left side (?). With towing package it has 5000 lbs rating, but even without cargo room issue finding a used one with towing package would be a challenge: it's not an option people get often.

Honda Pilot is an average drive, not bad but not fantastic, but rear seats are impossible for adults to use even for a short drive - knees are pressed against the middle row. It seats 8 though, but no self-respecting adults would agree to sit in the back. It's the ugliest of them all as well. Towing rating is 4000 lbs.

Mazda CX9 drives amazingly well - the best of the bunch by far, almost like a car. Only Mazda and Toyota were enjoyable to drive today. Middle seat in the second row is very uncomfortable, and cargo room in the back with 3rd row up would barely fit our stroller, but none of those is a deal-killer. So far it looks like this is the only viable option for us. Towing rating of only 3500 lbs means that I would have to be very careful when towing macgregor. I hope I can do it safely - because same car in Australia is rated for 4500 lbs, so it should be able to pull it off, hopefully. Used CX9 would probably be without a hitch, so I would get an aftermarket "hidden hitch", rated for 4000 lbs I guess. The towing prep package is standard on all canadian models (they only sell AWD CX9 here). I wonder if I can improve CX9 towing capacity somehow, maybe install a larger transmission cooler? It definitely has plenty of power and torque, and possibly a longer wheel base of all crossovers.

Out of desperation I even tested Honda Odissey - if we're stuck with 3500 lbs towing capacity it becomes an (unattractive) option because of clear advantages in passenger and cargo space. It actually drives quite well, unlike Toyota Sienna which feels like a very comfortable sofa on wheels. However finding a used one with towing package would be a challenge, and the lack of AWD kills the deal - I'd like to have AWD on a heavy car for winters, and towing and launching the sailboat also means AWD is important.

So any advice on how to improve Mazda CX9 towing experience, whether with hardware upgrades or weight distribution in the boat etc., is more than welcome! Looks like we're stuck with CX9 as our only viable candidate...

[mastreb]

I'm a big fan of Japanese cars, but is there any reason not to consider the Ford Flex or Chevy Tahoe? I'm not the biggest fan of American cars, but these are both contenders in the "seats 7, hauls, and doesn't suck that much" category. The Flex especially looks like it might be a good fit for your requirements.

You might also consider a used Mercedes-Benz ML 320 or 500. They tow like beasts, drive like a car, off-road like jeeps, and there was a rare 7-seat option we had that worked well. I'm not sure how used you want to go but price-wise they should be around $20K for a five-year-old with moderate miles. The 3rd row seats could be entirely removed when not necessary.

A used GL450 would be even better in all respects, but obviously more expensive, with a 2008 in good condition <100K mi coming in at $35K. We love ours--the trailer assist towing is fantastic.

I guess I'm saying I'd broaden my search and perhaps go a little older to save money before I settled on something that didn't meet all my criteria. Good vehicles last 200K miles easily these days before major repairs set in.

[romandesign]

Hmm. You gave me some food for thought. My initial findings are that Chevy Tahoe and full-size SUVs consume way too much fuel and are probably even more "truck-like" in driving than Pathfinder. As most driving would be without trailer, it's a big problem. Merc, Audy and Volvo XC90 (which looks very attractive at price of around $23-25K for 2008 model) use more expensive premium gas, are quite expensive to service and repair. Volvo XC90 and Audy Q7 are also surprisingly not fuel-efficient. Mazda, which usually does not excel in fuel efficiency is much better in that respect. Ford Flex IMHO is butt-ugly, coffin-on-wheels ugly, it would hurt me to see it every day in my garage. Also it's only avaiable since 2009, which makes it more expensive (I'm aiming for 2008, around $20-22K budget). Ford Explorer doesn't have a better towing rating than Mazda, while is a worse car at the similar price.

I'm not biased against US cars. The car I'm looking for will replace 2000' Chrisler Intrepid which still goes well and has been performing superbly all this time since 2003 that we bought it. Only one repair was needed (not including normal wear - breaks, battery etc.). So if there is US-made relatively fuel-efficient mid-size 7 seater that can tow better than Mazda - I'll be happy to consider it. But nothing comes to mind...

[Fxwg80hd]

Since your profile says "Still Shopping", so I'm not sure if you purchased a Mac yet. If you own one already, I would advise you put it on a scale loaded the way you would normally want to tow. If you have a 50hp or larger motor, I think you will be in for a surprise. With fluid, fuel, battery, sails, normal electronics, tools, and required boating safety gear I think you will find that you will easily be over 3,500 pounds. The brakes and suspension will be the biggest problem you will have at that point. The Aussy version most likely has a lower gear set, tighter suspension, and larger brakes that give it the higher tow rating.

If you are only towing a couple of miles, then pushing the limit may not be a big deal. If you are planning on towing 100's of miles at a time, then you might want to really think about what (or who) you are risking to save a couple bucks.