Engine oil etec

[mastreb]

My ETEC came from factory sales set for TC-W3, and I live in CA.

Matt

[GaryMayo]

There is a boat / engine combo for sale on craigs list with a 200 hp engine. The owner ways the oil injector system has been disconnected and he is mixing his own gas and oil in the tank.

I passed on that deal.

[bscott]

My ETEC came from factory sales set for TC-W3, and I live in CA.

Matt

I wonder if the factory changed to the TC-3 on later model years--makes more sense

Bob

[bscott]

There is a boat / engine combo for sale on craigs list with a 200 hp engine. The owner ways the oil injector system has been disconnected and he is mixing his own gas and oil in the tank.

I passed on that deal.

Many "racer types" do this to insure the engine's mixture is reliable (no pump failure) and they can run what ever ratio they think that gives them the most HP--sometimes as much as 100:1.

Aside from strengthening the transom and finding a safe way to carry all the extra fuel that a huge engine like that will require, it is very possible that the stock steering system will have to be exchanged for something a tad more robust.
Beware unintended consequences

8hp + 200hp = 208/2 = 104hp. average.

Bob

[Ixneigh]

Tonight I re read the manual and it says ts-3w or whatever. The x-100 only is a certified dealer only option to reprogram the EMM.
Still wonder about the tag that says "this engine programmed from the factory to run x100 oil"
I don't mind buying the more expensive stuff. Not like I use the motor a lot. If running at 50 to one with an oil that could handle 80 to one, maybe it will get oiled extra good.

Ixneigh

[raycarlson]

XD-100 is just BRP's branding for a premium 100% synthetic oil,Tohutsu TLDI,Mercury and yamaha all have requirements for this same quality oil in their direct injected motors. the most reasonable i have found is the Pennzoil full synthetic for direct injection at 34$ a gallon online. mercury and yamaha also make a proprietory brand as BRP does.They all meet the same standards and will function in eachothers motors fine.The important part is to make sure the container has three statements on it, TCW-3, full or 100% synthetic, and for direct injection engines.None of these engine manufactures make their own oil, they all purchase from the same two or three base stock suppliers with requests for certain additives to be blended in,it wouldn't surprise me if all three manufacturers were using the pennzoil in their branded containers.

[bscott]

XD-100 is just BRP's branding for a premium 100% synthetic oil,Tohutsu TLDI,Mercury and yamaha all have requirements for this same quality oil in their direct injected motors. the most reasonable i have found is the Pennzoil full synthetic for direct injection at 34$ a gallon online. mercury and yamaha also make a proprietory brand as BRP does.They all meet the same standards and will function in eachothers motors fine.The important part is to make sure the container has three statements on it, TCW-3, full or 100% synthetic, and for direct injection engines.None of these engine manufactures make their own oil, they all purchase from the same two or three base stock suppliers with requests for certain additives to be blended in,it wouldn't surprise me if all three manufacturers were using the pennzoil in their branded containers.

You will void the BRP warranty if you use any other oil other than XD-100 in the XD mode
The E-tec uses so little oil that the extra cost of the XD-100 is insignificant

Bob

[seahouse]

Agreed %100, Bob.

Why would anyone risk voiding a warrantee? Unless you are a petroleum chemist, and were involved in the development of this particular product / engine family (the oil and engine are designed concurrently and expressly for each other), how can you say for sure that there’s no difference between the brands?

Answer: You can’t.

Of course, there is a small chance that it might turn out to be that way, but, to date, I have not seen any evidence of that. If anyone can provide a link to a white paper with the data on that, post it here!

My next question would be – how much (money?) could you possibly save that would offset taking such an unnecessary risk with your engine?

And would Evinrude go to the trouble to create a “fake” engine configuration that overtly consumes less oil just to sell more oil of the “same” oil at a higher price point?

I doubt it.

The word “synthetic” describes one of a myriad of oil characteristics.

IIRC, XPS-II was developed in co-operation with Castrol, so by extension I would make the guess that XD-100 was made by Castrol too.

- Brian.

[raycarlson]

Don't let them BullSh-t you boys.they can't void your warranty for not using their brand of oil, thats against the law.they can require you to use an oil that meets their specific spec's ,but naturally they reccomend you use their special magic oil at double the going price,thats what's good for quarterly profits.wise up guys don't be a push over and let these big companies take money out of your wallet without putting up a little bit of a fight.

[Catigale]

And would (company) go to the trouble to create a (product) that (has a feature ) just to sell more(something) at a higher price point?

replace 'price point' with 'profit margin' and you have capitalism in a nutshell...a horrible system, but a better alternative has yet to be found...

[bscott]

Don't let them BullSh-t you boys.they can't void your warranty for not using their brand of oil, thats against the law.they can require you to use an oil that meets their specific spec's ,but naturally they reccomend you use their special magic oil at double the going price,thats what's good for quarterly profits.wise up guys don't be a push over and let these big companies take money out of your wallet without putting up a little bit of a fight.

Please provide the competitive pricing information, complete with brand name and specs, showing XD-100 to be 2 X the cost of the equivalent competitive XD oil. No E-tec owner is being forced to use XD-100 oil. They can use any brand/cheap oil meeting TCW-3 specs as long as the EMM is set to the TCW mode.

BTW, if you have an engine failure during the warranty period and BRP finds the oil to not meet their specs for XD, you are toast. Why would anyone take the chance?

That owner choice is capitalism at it's best

Bob

[Catigale]

I thought XD was a brand name, not a specified oil grade..??

Anyhoo...Amazon sells ETEC XD at 44 list, discounted to 42.

West Marine lists TCW3 at 25.99 on their website.

Its not quite 2x, but it does look like EV is asking a premium price for their brand. I doubt the cost differential is significant for weekend boaters like us.

[bscott]

Show me that TCW-50 is the same formula as XDW-100--one is designed to run lean at 80:1, the other at 50:1. Pay your money and take your chances--E-tec is not gov't mandated but is gov't approved for gov't lakes

Bob

[TAW02]

And would (company) go to the trouble to create a (product) that (has a feature ) just to sell more(something) at a higher price point?

replace 'price point' with 'profit margin' and you have capitalism in a nutshell...a horrible system, but a better alternative has yet to be found...

As sheriff Andy would say to his deputy;

"Now Barney!"

[seahouse]

Hey Ray –

If you will allow me to overlook your condescending attitude, I will point out that your logic is good, except the one key piece of data missing is that XD-100 is the only oil currently on the market that meets their specifications.

Ergo, using anything else (which therefore cannot meet their specifications) will certainly void the warrantee, and that’s not only legal, but how could anything else be sensibly the case?

A whole host of operating parameters are continuously recorded in real time in the “black box” (just like cars and airplanes) on the E-tec engine. The signature of the use of an improper oil would stick out like a sore thumb on the engine history database…Busted!

It’s a simple matter of economics that there needs to be a certain threshold number of consumers of a product for it to be viable on the market. The market for XD-100 is currently a niche.

Once more E-tec engines are on the market, and more are using the XD engine programme, then maybe another manufacturer will see value in introducing their own version of the product. That will take longer than usual because the rate of consumption per engine for that product is reduced. Sorry, I find it difficult to fault BRP for those circumstances.

BTW - I find it bizarre that I am ostensibly “defending” BRP on this technical issue, because there certainly is no shortage of legitimate criticisms one can put forth toward a large corporation. Sheesh! Evinrude certainly owes me a lengthy, reliable service life from my E-tec now.

As I already pointed out, the same product cycle happened with XPS-II in the mid-2000’s. IIRC It was a low-ash that replaced the ashless dispersant (among other characteristics) that preceded it, and no one else made an equivalent product for the mass market for years. The Rotax engines were stressed, ran at higher temperatures in some areas, but in time proved themselves to be very reliable “workhorses”.

I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with being somewhat cynical, but it needs to be tempered with a dose of reality too.

Hey Cat –

I don’t believe there’s any dispute that the XD engine setting consumes oil at a lower rate (is there?) – that’s pretty much accepted, given the number of people who have experienced it first-hand.

So I don’t see how, based on what you are saying, that it can make sense that the “same” (ie. that of a competitor’s) oil could be used for both settings. Sorry I’m not intelligent enough to see it. Would you mind explaining to me how that might work?

Hey Bob –

I notice that these guys giving out all this valuable advice to the E-tec owners don’t even own E-tecs. Bet me what oil / settings they would be using if they did!
(Yes, read sarcastically!)

- Brian.