26X Centerboard will not fully retract

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As title states, it will not fully retract.
The cable seems strong, but even if I lift the centerboard all the way up (in back) with a jack and pull REALLY hard on the cable, the centerboard will drop right back down when I remove the jack. In the first picture you can see it dropped about 2" in back. If the boat moves forward on the trailer far enough to allow the centerboard to clear the trailer bunk it will drop a couple more inches.

As you can imaging this makes launching difficult and I have to be careful when loading the boat onto the trailer that the weight of the boat doesn't settle on to the centerboard, keeping the boat from moving backwards. It has done this at least once and the centerboard has suffered an as yet undetermined amount of damage. It looks like a small chunk is missing from the leading edge at the bottom. I'll know more once I have it all apart.

The second picture shows the forward part of the centerboard protruding about 1/2" from the centerboard trunk. I have read elsewhere here that this is normal.

Anyone have any predictions as to the nature of my not-full-retracting centerboard issue?
Any helpful suggestions as far as removing it?
Any mod ideas that I should consider while I have it apart? A longer bolt maybe?

Thanks,

Eric

[opie]

Get out your socket and remove the nut and washer from the centerboard bracket hanger. You can find this nut when you open the small seat under the starboard forward dining table seat. Cushion the board by placing a cardboard box under the CB on the ground and let it fall when the nut is removed. Now you can remove the CB and hanger and place it all on the workbench. I bet there is something amiss. I do not think your cable or line stretches enough to cause this problem. Maybe you need a roller at the top of the cabin to ease the 90 degree transition. Let us know what you find.

Link1
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Link5

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Thanks for the links Opie, they were very interesting.

I dropped the centerboard, which proved to be very easy. My first impression is that it is in remarkable good condition. The bottom of the leading edge (when the board is down) that I was afraid might be damaged is scuffed up but there are no holes or cracks. Three is one small hole rear the top of the leading edge (board down) where water started leaking out when I first dropped it. Probably a gallon or so came out.

I was surprised by how HEAVY the thing is. The PO had told me it only weighed about 25 pounds. I would say it is closed to 75.

The bracket has only very minor surface rust. The steel cable looks slightly corroded but nothing that worries me.

So if nothing is wrong...why can't I get it all the way up?
I better go take another look.

[DaveB]

You need to look inside the centerboard trunk for line attachment scrapeing the inside trunk. Mine did and reason to change to all Sta line with a small eye spliced.
Go back to Opie and click on #3 and go down to my tread about changeing this.
I mentioned how the original line was attached causeing large grove on the inside walls from the centerboard fitting. This may be your problem.
Dave

Thanks for the links Opie, they were very interesting.

I dropped the centerboard, which proved to be very easy. My first impression is that it is in remarkable good condition. The bottom of the leading edge (when the board is down) that I was afraid might be damaged is scuffed up but there are no holes or cracks. Three is one small hole rear the top of the leading edge (board down) where water started leaking out when I first dropped it. Probably a gallon or so came out.

I was surprised by how HEAVY the thing is. The PO had told me it only weighed about 25 pounds. I would say it is closed to 75.

The bracket has only very minor surface rust. The steel cable looks slightly corroded but nothing that worries me.

So if nothing is wrong...why can't I get it all the way up?
I better go take another look.

[opie]

ESC,
Your investigation may have uncovered your problem. Just a guess, but how about this line of thinking.....
You dropped the board and water came out. Your board weighs 75# when it should weigh much less.
All Macgregor X boards (CB and rudders) (I am not sure about M's foils) require water to enter into holes in the bottom of the boards and air to escape from holes in the top of the boards. This gives weight to the boards and gives them more stability when sailing. It is sometimes a mistake of newbies to think these holes are mistakes and they try to plug them. Or there may be barnacles or junk blocking the holes.
So if your centerboard is retaining water when raised, it matters not as long as you are in the water, since it is mostly under water anyway. The trouble may occur when you leave the water and the weight of water that your CB is carrying acts to bog down your CB and causes it to sag the amount your pictures show. So make sure you open those holes.
Esc, do you get a good "clunk", when raising the CB on the water or on land, as it hits the top of the fiberglass? Is there a clam shell way up in the CB slot? With the CB out, have you put a stick up in there and slid it back and forth to make sure there is no foreign object up there?

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I was just looking up inside the trunk. There is no evidence of anything rubbing on the sides. It is surprisingly clean up in there.

No I do not get a satisfying "thud" when raising it. It just gets harder and harder until it won't go any farther. I need to take a closer look at the top of the cable and sure that it is not frayed and catching at the 90 degree bend...

I did notice that the pivot pin is slightly bent in the middle . But it turns freely in the centerboard and in the bracket.

It is definitely retaining water. It feels like it is ballasted with something (water). So where are these holes supposed to be? I suppose I should try to find and free, or re-drill, the "Weep" holes so that it will drain properly.

But I'm still confused as to why, even when I lifted it with a jack I could not tighten the line enough to hold it up? Even if I put the line on the winch it will not go all the way up.

[opie]

Since all is apart anyway, why not doing what others like Dave and I have done and use some strong line like StaSet and replace, for a test, the metal line with all rope line? I, as others have done, also put a 90 degree turning block at the top of the mast compression post so that there is easy turning of the line at that point. There is a picture in the threads somewhere.
As for the upper and lower air and water holes see below:
Images

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I saw those holes...they look like they are full of something...maybe hard mud? Maybe something else. It is dark now so I'll go look at it in the daylight tomorrow.

Right now the steel line has a loop crimped in the end that goes around a bolt through the centerboard. I may try a rope just to see what happens,

I like the idea of a turning block, I'll have to see if I can find that thread.

[opie]

Here is mine, the thread has other types shown....
THREAD LINK

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I disconnected the line from the centerboard today so that I could pull it out and inspect everything. The line is very slightly frayed at the top where it makes the 90 degree turn when the centerboard is fully retracted. Maybe 3 or 4 strands of the steel cable are broken. It needs attention, but it is not bad enough to explain the problem.

The drain holes in the centerboard appear to unobstructed. When I stood the centerboard up it started slowly weeping water from the lower holes.

There is some damage to the boat around the pin. It looks like the pin was forced forward and tried to go through the fiberglass. I expect this happened when the sagging centerboard caught on the bunk and would not allow the boat to slide backwards. There is additional damage inside the trunk, above and just forward of the pin (See pictures). If this was caused by the pin wedging in it might be VERY serious. It seems to be limited to the gel coat. I could not find any obvious "cracks" when probing with a screwdriver.

This is looking forward at the starboard side.


Here is the port side.


Aside from possibly the weight, I still don't see a root cause of the problem.

[esc]

Here is another picture which shows two more issues. The pin is bent and the bolt coming out of the bracket is ever so slightly bent.

I'm convinced that both happened at the same time as the damage to the gel coat in the trunk. I can see it now;
Put boat on trailer,
Do the MacGregor "Bump",
Boat moves forward on trailer, riding up on the stop at the front of the trailer,
Centerboard clears the bunk and drops 4 inches,
The boat tries to settle back into the correct position but is now being help "UP" by the centerboard, wedged into the bunk.
The pin gets slammed forward into the fiberglass, tearing up the gel coat and bending the pin.


Funny, this is just the sort of situation were the centerboard should be expected to break, rather than trying to put a hole in the trunk.

But it still gets me no closer to knowing WHY the centerboard would not stay up in the first place.

The pin and bracket don't seem damaged enough to effect their operation or the location of the centerboard by more than 1/8". Think the slightly bent pin will cause any uneven wear of the centerboard hole? As I said earlier, I can spin the pin easily while it is in the centerboard and bracket.

[esc]

OK, Ive been reading everything I could find on this board and else where about x centerboards. Here are my conclusions:

I want to replace my SS cable with another SS cable. I would rather have to worry about a SS cable fraying at the top where I can see it than a rope underneath where I can't. There may be rust issues, but lots of boats use SS cables for lifting their swing keels and they do fine. I'm inclined to believe that it was a cost saving measure when the factory quit using steel line.

I'm going to order a new bracket and pin. Even if I don't use it, it won't hurt to have a spare.

The center board has been out of the boat for 2 days and while a significant amount of water drained out...it still feels like it weighs 50+ pounds. Does anyone know whet is it supposed to weigh? I think the 25 lbs quoted by the PO was a serious under estimate.

I have no idea where, but I think that the original wire must have been hanging up somewhere in/around the compression post and that is what caused my problems.

I'm going to make a new SS line, install it and go from there.

[Retcoastie]

Our 02X has a line, not a cable. However, the raising you describe would be what I would expect if the line were tied to the centerboard from the wrong side.

I would also take a pressure water hose to the holes in your board. I think they are plugged. Mine only weighs about 20lbs and I have never found any water in it. I believe it all drains out very quickly, certainly it does not "weep"out.

Ken

[opie]

Personally, I think the line is a better design for our X's over a metal cable. It will never rust, of course. It is easy to pull up and let down. It is easy to replace in the water while swimming on a warm calm sunny day and not that hard to do in the driveway.

The line does fray some about 10 inches from the CB knot, but should last two to three years of normal use. Even if you used the boat a great deal, you could reverse the line every two years and get 4 years out of it. And, cutting the new line two feet too long, will allow you to cut the frayed part off and get 12 years usage......

As for your continued mystery of sagging, I await your new line or cable to be installed and give us the info of your results. I can not figure it out. The size of the hole at the pivot should not have anything to do with the sagging. However, to prevent slop, it should be tight. Some have used a copper sleeve, others PVC, one used SS, and I used a rubber hose section.

[capncarp]

esc,
Retcoastie is correct. The board is probably plugged with mud or something else. A pressure washer wand may be the only way to get it out. I bought my X new in 99. It came with a nylon line. Same as your halyards. I have never had to change it. It is a much smother action than wire. Lifting the board is vey easy. Even full of water. I have also put a bushing thru the line attach point in the board. Has the board always sagged? Possibly the hangar bracket was not tightened all the way down inside the hull. Your bent pin will not cause that much sag. I believe it is the weight causing stretch in the nylon part of the centerboard line.
capncarp,