Harken Traveler Thread

[Chip Hindes]

Perhaps I should be addressing this directly to Heath, but is anyone else unable to get to P2 of the original thread? I can't wait to see Frank's last post!

[Moe]

No, I think the post on the end got corrupted. I can only get as far as post 24 by changing the &start= parameter in the URL to 10.

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewt ... 5&start=10

Sometimes when this happens, it will straighten itself out if another post is added, but that doesn't appear to be possible with this thread.
--
Moe

[Frank C]

It happened in one of my postings, where I linked a photo from the mods section (embedding an image). I always use copy/paste to create the link, but for some reason the forum software is adding stray characters when doing a paste, or when saving the thread. I'd recommend always using the "Preview" option before submitting a post with photo links - I usually use preview for ALL posts using any URL.

There is a bug in the forum software that corrupts some records in Heath's database, which I've PM'd to him before. There was good info in that thread, I hope Heath can save it. I'll send him a message

[Frank C]

. . . to see Frank's last post!

If that was about common sense & professional training, (just from memory) it was to the effect:

OUCH! . . . very impressive.

Really! . . .
I guess.

[Chip Hindes]

Nah. In fact, I'm pretty sure that was on another thread. In response to one of your previous posts I added quite a long comment and some calculations on boom loading and mechanical advantage of the Garhauer RV versus the stock vang. I'd be really disappointed if it were lost, but if so, I may fire it up again from memory because (as with all of my posts) it was really interesting stuff.

[Frank C]

Oh, that was the 2.5-foot versus 4-foot leverage, an 18% advantage. I sensed that the advantage exceeds 18% due to boom flex (perhaps a "common sense fallacy"). Try this partial clip remaining in my Clipmate database.

By using the "improved leverage" of rigid vang at 40% ... I meant that when applying truly immense force trying to pull the sail flat in heavy wind, there's diminished opportunity for the boom to "tail" or flex upward. Such a tendency would be somewhat offset by (dual vectors of) the mainsheet, but I sense the RV is more effective. Of course, the traveler would be more effective yet. And the traveler PLUS the rigid vang would be most effective.

(Oops! just realized that I also embedded an image from the mods pages - that must be exactly why the page is hung-up) - I've sent a message to Heath. I hope he recovers that thread because I agree that it has valuable content.

Anyway, I also responded about leading the vang line aft, with an image from the "Cockpit" mods page. From memory:

Clip a bullet block to the centerboard guide loop.
Lead the vang line thru that block to port
Add a cheek block atop the port hatch rail (just like factory stb)
Terminate vang line at the port winch with a PX cleat.
You need "extra-extra" purchase to overcome new friction.

[Chip Hindes]

Yeah, that's the one, except it's 13% not 18. For ease of computation, my calculations assumed the boom is kept approximatley horizontal, and the upward pull by the sail was a single concentrated load at the clew end (like a loose footed sail). Obviously the actual loading is quite a bit more complex but the results on the vang are the same. Boom bending is another story, but I didn't take it that far.

It's primarily the 12:1 purchase on the RV which is trying to turn the boom into a pretzel. There's got to be a happy medium somewhere. The 4:1 stock vang is so inadequate it cant be used to tension the vang independently. I suppose this is good in a way because you certainly can't bend or break anything on the boom with the puny 4:1 purchase.

The only reasonable way to use it is pull the boom down to where you want it with the mainsheet, then take up the slack on the vang, then ease the mainsheet to where you want it. Same thing going the other way; when you pull the running end of the vang out of the cam cleat on the block, it releases with an actual bang, and you better not have your fingers wrapped around the line if you want to keep them.

I'm not going to argue with you about the usefulness of a traveler; I agree with you 100%. It's just that I don't see even a marginal way to execute one on an X without seriously compromising something else that I'm unwilling to compromise.

And, sorry M owners, the traveler on the M is only a little bit better than pathetic.

[mtc]

this is crazy; the harken page won't even let me into the store and now i can't get nto the string.

is this an X conspiracy?

I'd like to look into that traveler upgrade. the traveler's a very important tool to adjust the boom.

help, help,

[tidalwave]

Thanks for the notification about the Harken Traveler Kit...
got the kit and 5ft of track for $180.00 and NO shipping charges.
I received the kit four days after I ordered it online.
It is the sweetest small boat traveler I have seen. The traveler car has delrin bearings in a race-track ring pattern. You can move the car on the Harken track (without lines) by gently blowing on it.
Before I bought it, I went out to the and gave the factory car a sharp yank on the car's sheet...the car jammed immediately on the track...nearly pulled my wrist off!

One caveat...you need to replace the one inch wide Mac track with a narrower Harken track...the track bolt holes are 4 inches on center whereas the Mac track are at five inches, the Harken track comes 5ft long while the 26M track is only 3 ft.

I placed the removed Mac 5 inch hole track on top of the new 4 inch hole track...and of course, two of the holes matched up (4x5 = 5x4 inches)
I bolted the two tracks together at the matched holes...after carefully adjusting the two from bolt hole to bolt hole so the new holes I was going to drill weren't within the counter sunk holes of the new track. I cut the new track to 37 inches. I then carefully drilled marking holes in the new track which matched the Mac track holes. I removed the Mac track and drilled out the matched holes in the Harken track. I then counter sunk the new holes to allow the deck bolts to sit flush with the top of the new track. I found that I could reuse the smaller diameter bolts but I had to go to a mid-sized bolt for the two bolts which support the M's cabin ladder.
To cover up the unused factory holes, I tapped threads in the unused holes and screwed shortened SS bolts into the holes...just cosmetic...I guess I could have left them exposed.
The new kit has turning blocks with cams at the track ends...so no need for track end stops.
After tightening everything up...I ran new sheets through the rig...just a slight tug and the car floats from one side to another.
Harken sales are final...so I crossed my fingers...shackled my mainsheet to the car and yanked on that race-track bearing car...she whisked along...hit the turning block car...no damage...I yanked about five times as hard as I could pull on the line...the car withstood it without a trace of damage. I looked at the bearing race...the delrin bearings seemed to withstand the banging. (I haven't been able to get the M out and actually
have a hard jibe against the car...but I bet it will be nearly bullet proof as long as I keep the car bearings clean)

[Mark Prouty]

Frank's Post:

"Improved leverage" of rigid vang at 40% ... I meant that when applying truly immense force trying to pull the sail flat in heavy winds, there's diminished opportunity for the boom to "tail" or flex upward. Such tendency would be somewhat offset by (twin-vectors of) the mainsheet, but I sense the RV is more effective. Of course, the traveler would be more effective yet.

I'm guessing where my GRV attaches to boom, 4' aft is pretty close, I think. It's true that the real benefit of GRV is its 12:1 (ball-bearing) tackle ... purchase that is even more important when leading it aft, due to added friction. Here's one method:Vang Line Aft: Shackle a bullet block to the centerboard guide loop, giving you a centered turning block. Lead the vang line to this centered block and turn to portside, for example. Add a cheek block atop the port hatch rail, just like the factory uses for the centerboard line. Stop the vang line with a PX cleat near the port winch
(see mod here).