Sail Trim

[yukonbob]

I think I know the answer but want a second opinion... I am finding that in heavier winds 25-30 kt on a broad reach i fight to keep pointed down wind ie the boat wants to head back up wind, and if it gusts, it goes upwind and I have to let the main out even with the wheel maxed. I think i just have to let the main out a little bit to maintain course? Any other suggestions? Same thing happen earlier this summer when we lost the jib, did an immediate 180 and the sheet tied itself into a beautiful mess, the only thing that saved it was that it happened to knot the end of the sheet before it went through the car and maxed the clinometer

[bscott]

What do your tell tails tell you? 20-25 should be reefed. Sounds like you needed to quickly dump your traveler to lee. You should have a figure 8 knot tied to the bitter end of your sheets.

Bob

[yukonbob]

They tend to waver a bit but generally straight back. I've reefed before but not worth the hassle I'd prefer the speed and keep my hand on the main just in case. As for the jib sheet it's only happened once and I take them down every weekend to get the sock on, so it's more of a convenience. I will try moving the traveler. i usually don't move it when it's under load cause it doesn't have much purchase. I was going to let the main out a bit but I think that's a better idea to keep the sheet tighter hmm...

[jschrade]

Yikes, you need to reef sailor! The traveler will not offset 25-30 knot winds. As you found out, you can end up on your ear real quick and that's not fun.

In that wind, I don't even bother with the main. You can get 6+ knots on the genoa (reaching or running) and you can roll it up real easy when you are done or need to reef the genoa a bit.


Jim

[yukonbob]

no genoa yet, actually tore my main from the clew along the foot on that outing. Ah well I get a new main. I just find reefing reduces sooo much sail, and this is more interesting

[Hamin' X]

When on a broad reach, you don't need much daggerboard down. Bring it up by 2/3'rds and this will reduce your weather helm and heeling.

~Rich

[yukonbob]

That' s funny cause this only happens the odd time when i'm alone or when the db gets jammed from speed and I don't want to go up and pull it. And that's usually in higher winds. Gonna try that out. Thanks for the suggestions

[mastreb]

So that's classic "rounding up" which the boat is designed to do in order to prevent knockdown. Your options are to reef or to pull up the board to allow the boat to sideslip.

Here's the thing: You're only going to make 6.5 knots absolute maximum in a Mac (because that's its maximum displacement speed) unless you get up on a plane, which will not happen in a broad reach under any circumstance. There's literally no point in keeping that much sail out because you will not make speed above 6.5 knots--you just heel farther and round-up. Reduce sail and get your heel down to 20% where the boat has it's lowest drag through the water, and you'll be in Mac nirvana. Beyond that you're just going to destroy sails and scare your crew.

[bscott]

Back in the day when racing was my thing we played the traveler all the time as it keeps the ms draft flat = less heeling in a puff. Convert your purchase to 6:1 and you will use it on a regular basis.

Figure 8 knots are fast to tie and easy to untie as they don't become a tight knot--why would you risk loosing a jib or main sheet in a knock down?

2 X on what mastreb said about hull speed

Bob

[yukonbob]

You're only going to make 6.5 knots absolute maximum in a Mac

Depends on the size of the waves your sailing with
Good to know on the rounding up, gonna try the traveller more as well as the db....then maaaybe reduce the sail.
Thanks guys.

[robbarnes1965]

Yikes, you need to reef sailor! The traveler will not offset 25-30 knot winds. As you found out, you can end up on your ear real quick and that's not fun.

In that wind, I don't even bother with the main. You can get 6+ knots on the genoa (reaching or running) and you can roll it up real easy when you are done or need to reef the genoa a bit.


Jim

I agree with Jim,

Caught in a storm this summer with up to 6ft waves and 40+kts wind I learned my lesson about sailing with a full main. The genoa is way more easy to control and will help keep you pointed down wind. Releasing it solves everything. Using the main leaves you much more committed. Jibing in 25kts can also be a bit too exciting for the crew.

Rob

[Ixneigh]

Even with the extra lead plus all my junk there's no way I'd use a full main in 25 or greater. If you had to come onto the wind for whatever reason the boat would be out of control until you reefed or doused the sail. Deeply reefed main and head sail gets my vote. You'll just destroy gear otherwise.
Even with no headgear and just a full main my M struggles to stay off her side.


Ixneigh

[Catigale]

The Doyle mainsail from the factory will blow out in 25 kts without the reef in.

New sail with 2 reefs perhaps?

[Ixneigh]

That's what I would eventually like to have. Plus an extra heavy weight cloth construction.
Also needs a different draft I think. I am more likely to be trying to power through chop instead of gliding along in a sheltered harbor or lake.

Ixneigh

[bscott]

Doyle main is cut flatter because of the rotating mast. You can induce more draft by easing the out haul and main halyard. Too bad KH seems to be having problems because their C2000 main is designed for the M and is a heavier construction than the Doyle OEM. (I can't remember the weight in ozs) and works well in high wind conditions.

Bob