CDI FF2 Furler setup

[ScottCReeve]

Hi: I just purchased a 1999 26X at the end of the season last year and was wondering if I could get some advice on installing a Jib furler. I purchased a CDI FF2 and not having one before I am trying to get all the parts I need to set it up. I have read the online manual and it says that I should instal swage on turnbuckle with T Bolts both at the top and bottom of the stay. I am assuming that I will be using the stay that came with the boat and that I will have to cut it to the proper length. How do I attach the turnbuckles to a cut end of the stay so it is secure. I have not seen one of these turnbuckles before so I am unsure of how to do it or where to buy them as well as if they come in different configurations, threaded, lockjaw, etc. Since I purchased the boat at the end of the season I only had time to look over the boat and engine then had to winterize it and put it away so I had no real time to go over the rigging etc. I also assume that the stay I have is the original one and so have no idea of the diameter of the wire.

Thanks for any advice
Scott Newbie owner

[Catigale]

You need a swage tool (honestly) that is basically a crimping device that will squeeze the tb onto the stay...good news is that West Marine usually has them in their shop and will let you use them for free.

[Sumner]

Last fall I made up new shrouds and a backstay myself after buying a hand swagger, but that isn't the kind that you need. I was nervous about making these up, but they came out fine and I trust them.

Going to West Marine might be a good option if someone there shows you how to swage that fitting on if they have the correct equipment to do it. I wouldn't do it myself unless I had help the first time. You don't want that forestay to come down.

An other alternative is to have a place like ....

http://www.riggingonly.com/

....make up a new forestay for you. That is what I did. Their pricing is very good and they might not be much more than buying the end fittings and wire from West Marine. Maybe give them a call and get a quote.

I also added a Johnson lever to the forestay at the same time and love it and put on the toggles as recommended. All of this will effect the length of the new forestay. I added enough items that I had to move the forestay and the shrouds up the mast some. You shouldn't have to do this, but do lay it all out and compare the overall length to what you have now.

Good luck,

Sum

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[ScottCReeve]

Thanks for the speedy reply's. I am a Canadian snowbird so my boat is back home. I bought it at the end of the season last year so I don't even know the size of the wire of the stays so I have e-mailed MacGregor for the size. I am trying to buy all I need here before I go home since it is a lot cheaper to buy what I need in the US rather then Canada. I was doing some further searching and I came across some toggles that are attached via a compresion wedge rather then having to crimp a fitting on. What do you think of them? I will not receive my furler until the end of next week so I don't even know what is included but I am pretty sure the toggles are not part of the package.

[gyroplanes]

I have been real happy with the CDI FF2 on my last two MACs. The only complaint I have had was addressed by an e-mail to CDI recently. I thought I'd share it.
I have had a problem with the 3/16" furling line on the CDI. At the worst possible time, it slips through my CAM (and LEVER) locks to give me more sail area.
My response from CDI was o use a larger line and "CORE" the line where it wraps around the drum. I had never heard of the coring process before and it sounded as if it would weaken the line too much.
I was assured by the CDI rep that the line will still be plenty strong and that he pulled some stumps with a cored line.
I guess there is more strength in the outer "jacket" than in the core of a line?

Coring a line is sliding back the outer layer and cutting away the core. Sounds silly to me, but I was assured it works. i was told it has to be a two ply line.

MY QUESTION: I have a "Johnson" lever that I have always wanted to use on my Furler stay. I assume raising the Genoa a foot or so will give me some forward visibility, clear the deck a bit and put the sail higher, where it should work better. I'm sure there are Cons to the mod as well. Being week in geometry, I suppose there is a formula to find the amount I would have to raise the jib stay, to get the proper length for the new, longer stay.
Any other Cons to worry about?
Any help here would be much appreciated.
It's only 47 days until the boat can be put in the water at our marina.

[Catigale]

there is a formula of course, but I did this mod and posted it in the Mac Mods section - IIRC it was 5 1/2 inch lift....

[Captain Jim]

Cat,
I checked your mod on this and at the time you said one had to move the attachment point up the mast 7.5". Have you revised the number to 5.5 snce then?

Jim

[Trailor Sailor]

I have been real happy with the CDI FF2 on my last two MACs. The only complaint I have had was addressed by an e-mail to CDI recently. I thought I'd share it.
I have had a problem with the 3/16" furling line on the CDI. At the worst possible time, it slips through my CAM (and LEVER) locks to give me more sail area.
My response from CDI was o use a larger line and "CORE" the line where it wraps around the drum. I had never heard of the coring process before and it sounded as if it would weaken the line too much.
I was assured by the CDI rep that the line will still be plenty strong and that he pulled some stumps with a cored line.
I guess there is more strength in the outer "jacket" than in the core of a line?

Coring a line is sliding back the outer layer and cutting away the core. Sounds silly to me, but I was assured it works. i was told it has to be a two ply line.

MY QUESTION: I have a "Johnson" lever that I have always wanted to use on my Furler stay. I assume raising the Genoa a foot or so will give me some forward visibility, clear the deck a bit and put the sail higher, where it should work better. I'm sure there are Cons to the mod as well. Being week in geometry, I suppose there is a formula to find the amount I would have to raise the jib stay, to get the proper length for the new, longer stay.
Any other Cons to worry about?
Any help here would be much appreciated.
It's only 47 days until the boat can be put in the water at our marina.

Hello,
There are a lot of practical reasons to raise the genoa foot but keep in mind there is a performance tradeoff. I am by far not an expert (I dont even know the proper terminology for the the following) but from a performance stand point you want the center of effort as low as possible. Raising the CE on the sails (for lack of better words) increases tippiness and decreases forward power. I have no idea what impact 5 1/2inches has but it may not be insignificant on our relatively small boats.

In regards to the jacket and core, I believe the key is the move up to a larger line size to compensate for the removal of the core. I know this is done often for line handling reasons but I have no idea if there is proper way to determine the remaining working strength w/ core removed other than experiance (or black magic).
I did this on my cheap Harken furler but for a different reason. I had replaced the furling line with a larger size for handling reasons (hard to pull a small 3/16 line) but I found the drum was to small so if I did not have the furler setup exactly right I either had no line left to roll the remaining 1 foot of sail in or roll the sail out and have the furling line bind in the drum.
Many on the trailor sailor BB recommended removing the core, which I did from the first 10ft of line that wraps around the furler drum (not the full lengh). Gave me plenty of more turns on the drum and leaving the core at the cockpit end makes line handling better.

Todd

[Sumner]

On moving the bottom of the sail up here is my take on that. Determine if you are more cruiser or more racer.

We are all cruiser, so doing so has big benifits for us. Our boat came with a stock forestay and hank-on sails. When I setup our new furler I cut the luff of the furler a couple inches longer to make sure I could raise the sail all the way. I made the headstay a few inches longer than probably necessary to have a little more room at the head of the furler luff. CDI told me they wanted it to rotate on the forestay and not the fitting at the top of the forestay.

I added a 14-210 Johnson Lever that has a minimum lenght of 9 3/8 inchs vs. 6 7/8 and 7 3/8 for the 14-205 and 14-206 most people use. I had increased the forestay from 1/8 to 5/32 and figured if I wanted to carry that strength safety margin through the rest of the forstay I needed to increase everything to 5/16 for the pins and such. The 210 has a breaking strength of 4000# and a working load of 1600#. The 205 and 206 have a breaking strength of 2500# and working load of 1000#. I'm sure they would of worked fine. I also added a toggle at the bottom of the Johnson Lever and at the top of the forestay.



With the little longer Johnson lever, the toggle and the furler housing the bottom of the sail is now about 15 inches higher than when it was pinned down by the deck. That is a guess as I'm 2200 miles from the boat right now. The top of the forestay is now about 20 inches higher up the mast and as I've said before I also moved the new upper shrouds to new hounds where the forestay now lives.



What has this done to boat performance? I really haven't a clue as we don't sail the boat that hard and are still learning. I know one thing, we won't be going back and we don't regret the change for a second. Now we can see under the head sail, Ruth really likes that.



The bottom of the sail now doesn't drag on the pulpit and on the rode bags. That is nice. With the furler if we think the boat is heeling a little too much we just furl the sail in some.

If you are a racer get the sail as low as possible maybe, but if you aren't don't sweat it. Also in light winds the higher sail might actually run faster since the wind velocity increases the higher you go .

I wouldn't of wanted to have made up a new forestay or had one made up without the new headsail, furler unit, Johnson lever and other fittings at hand to measure things first. If you are north of the border and want a tip on how maybe to buy parts down here at a better deal PM me.

c ya,

Sum

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[Catigale]

Jim... The mod number is correct. I'm too old to trust anything to memory except my anniversary date...I even have that written on my hand in sharpie.

[bwygirl]

You can just call us and get a Roller Furling Headstay, we have them in stock. They are professionally made, not hand crimped. Blue Water Yachts 206-282-4261

[gyroplanes]

Thanks for the replies to my question. I don't know how I missed the MOD. I read every MAC 26X mod.... it's what lead me to buy one !

i plan to take a good look at my standing rigging this Spring. If I do the MOD, I'll try to photo it and post the results.
Tom

[Highlander]

Thats the nice thing about my Harken 00 furlers I can tighten or loosen the jib halyard or raise & lower my genny by as much as 32" all from the cockpit

J