Tiller questions...

[esc]

.....I would like to look at the relative tension needed to lift the rudder against the bungee vs free it with the self releasing cleat and what damage could be done by the innitial impact.........

Just so you know you can adjust the release tension needed with the cleat. Good luck with the bungee and don't forget you don't want the rudder coming up while underway at all as it will stress the rudder and bracket more and more the further it is up.

Sum

I didn't know that the release pressure was adjustable. That makes a big difference.

As for the rudders coming up, I did experience that the first time I took it out and my "crew" didn't know to tie the rudder in the down position. It felt like something was jamming the steering. Luckily it didn't take much investigating to find out what was wrong.

I'm starting to think that a releasing cleat would be a good idea for the center board as well.

[vizwhiz]

Pictures of the "before" tiller...get splinters just holding the thing!
You can see the Tiller Tamer on it - still works, but the sheave on it is destroyed...have to replace that.

[Catigale]

Cheap way to do the self-release thing ...just pull the rudder downhaul up tight, then cleat OVER the line on top of the cleat....the tension will hold the rudder in sailing position but if you hit anything hard, it will pop out and minimise rudder damage.

Worked perfectly when I forgot about the rock ledge South of Cuttyhunk harbor edge...

[vizwhiz]

Cat - could you show me a pic of that? Trying to imagine cleating in a way that the rope can come off...

[Newell]

I have a 96X and have used bungee/rope downhaul/uphaul long before anyone came up with the release cleats that I heard about. I don't use bungee for the entire circuit. I tied bungee and rope together (it isn't easy) and whipped the ends. I have also built a bungee downhaul for my 89D rudder. I'm on my second version of this, but not because I had a problem, just wanted to make the downhaul look better and have no way for it to come loose and take out my eye.

Newell

[Newell]

This is a PS. The tiller tamer is made by Davis Instruments. You can be the small white wheel and any other parts quite reasonable.

Newell

[kmclemore]

Some previous thoughts on the subject...

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... hp?t=14857

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... hp?t=13074

[Catigale]

Viz.... Don't have a pic, but will try to clarify

Pull line to deploy rudder in down position.

Gather up slack and lay it over the rudder cleat

Now grab the other line and figure eight cleat over top of the line to hold it

Now the rudder is held hard enough to sail or low speed motor , but will release if you hit a hard object

[vizwhiz]

Cat - by "the other line" are you speaking of the rudder-raising line? I get what you're saying to do now about cleating it, just trying to figure out which lines you're referring to... Thanks for the 'splaining!


Sumner - I found laminated tillers on the West Marine website - they look just like the one you have - probably where the PO got it, if I had to guess. Pretty! But $150 also! The sandpaper/stain/poly route will just have to do for now...my labor is a lot cheaper than that!


Newell - I looked up the Tiller-Tamer and have the info for it, just need a source for "replacement sheaves" that might fit it... I'm planning to put in a couple small fairleads or even blocks behind the Tiller-Tamer to route the rope down along the tiller before it squirts off to the port/starboard sides for cleating. As it is right now, the PO had the rope just cleated across the boat through the T-T and it came in at an angle that rubbed on the rope badly and didn't "flow" through as you moved the tiller back-and-forth. I think they could have incorporated that "rope-turning" feature into the T-T to begin with...wouldn't have been hard to add a few "swooshes" to the mold to route the rope in/out better.

[Sumner]

...Sumner - I found laminated tillers on the West Marine website - they look just like the one you have - probably where the PO got it, if I had to guess. Pretty! But $150 also! The sandpaper/stain/poly route will just have to do for now...my labor is a lot cheaper than that! .........

I'm about 100% sure it came from IdaSailor. Joel on the other board use to work there and made them and said it looked just like the ones he made and since the rudder and centerboard came from there I'll bet the tiller did also, but don't know for sure.

I'd say as long as yours isn't broken, use it ,

Sum

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[cruiser]

Hi Vizwhiz,
My tiller and Tiller Tamer looked pretty much like yours - and still do!! Has gone from being an urgent job to a non-urgent job. I had a few chips out of the side and roller on the Tiller Tamer but found it worked perfectly OK once I turned it around (POs had it on back to front).

There is a booklet for the Tiller Tamer on the Davis site and it may pay to have a look at that before you set it up.
http://www.davisnet.com/about/index.asp
Important issue is to have the rope coming out of the Tamer to form 90 degree angle - in my case tying it off to the back staunchions on the pushpit.

[Erik Hardtle]

There is a better product I found than the tiller tamer
It is called the Tiller Clutch

http://www.wavefrontmarine.com/

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1NYvZakg60

[vizwhiz]

Awesome stuff...I like the Tiller Clutch - looks like a good product - do you use one? Would be great to get some feedback on it...

Cruiser - It was set up probably close to 90-degrees, but not quite. I still say it needs fairleads or small blocks so that it comes straight out of the Tamer and the rope doesn't wear on the edges - I think it's gonna wear on the rope no matter what if you mount it as shown in the instructions.

Sumner - I have plans to refinish it at this point...bought some outdoor stain and stuff. But I'm thinking that if I can find one cheap I might just replace it, as the more I work on it, the more I am trying to minimize the time spent fixing up stuff that can easily be replaced. This guy will take a whole day of stripping/sanding, and then several days to repaint, waiting between the coats of stain and the poly. Since I'm going to have to spend some time working on things that will truly take attention and labor...like gutting the lazarette (has a rotting wooden battery/gas can support structure built in there), re-routing some wiring, cleaning out/re-fitting the galley compartment, and fixing up running/anchor lights, I'm thinking it might be time better spent if I just buy a replacement. We'll see... My goal is to get on the water!!

[vizwhiz]

Update - the tiller has been re-finished (will post a few pics soon) and I took the rudder post out to inspect and adjust the plates that flank the rudder. All re-installed, and it appears that (now that I have a much better idea of what the different parts do) I still have two questions...

(1) the cable guide for the downhaul is mounted to the side of the tiller - actually looks like it came from the factory that way as there are no other holes where it might have been before. The cleat is on the top of the tiller. Would it matter to run the cable out the top of the post, along the side of the tiller, and then bring the rope to the cleat on top? I suppose I could either move the cleat down to the side, or the cable guide to the top...but is it necessary?

(2) the tiller seems to "rest" on the transom, or the back edge of the cockpit if you call it that...on the S there is a wide spot there for the lazarette hatch, not a narrow transom...but there doesn't seem to be anything to hold the tiller "up" off the deck...it just rests on the deck. I'm concerned that it will scratch or mar the deck, wear on the tiller...just doesn't seem right...is it normal to just lay there like that?

[cruiser]

Sounds like you are making good progress Vizwhiz. I know that feeling of forever trying to get the balance between working on the boat and actually sailing it.

My downhaul comes up through the SS tiller post, and over a slight grove in the timber at the end of the tiller, then cleats off on the top of the tiller. Same figure eight cleat as on Sumners but I have not yet installed a quick release cleat like Sumner's - will do so soon. My downhaul is all rope but I think I will eventually go to SS wire for the bit that comes up through the tiller post - the same way that Sumner did.

I know what you mean about the tiller resting on the lazarette hatch and I use to stress about that, but to be honest I can see no wear on the cover so far - mine is a 1992 S. Others on the forum have talked about various types of synthetic rubbing strips and yet others have simply fixed a line to the more rearward part of the tiller and tied it off on the pushpit rail or backstay - it is not on my list of priorities until I see some sign of problems.