Tiller questions...

[vizwhiz]

(1) Tiller on my 26S (wood) is in pretty bad shape. Doesn't look like anyone has done anything to it in 15 years... Most of the coating is gone from the top and part way down the sides, and the exposed wood is rough. I was thinking of removing what's left of the old varnish (?) with paint thinner and such, and then sanding it smooth in order to coat it. I have a can of polyurethane that I was going to use for something else but haven't...any reason I can't put a couple good coats of that on the wood and be done for now? It may not last 15 more years, but shouldn't it hold up for a while? Boat usage will be day sailing, overnighting, and will be trailered and stored in the backyard.

(2) Tiller has the cleat used for raising the rudder on it. I can only think that this would be located on the tiller for one of two reasons (or both)...so that as you turned the rudder, no undue forces were put on the rudder by the rope...and/or so that you could raise the tiller, cleat the rudder, and then lower the tiller to help you lift the rudder. The latter seems silly, so I'm thinking the first is the only logical explanation. Is there any reason I can't take that cleat/rope off the tiller and mount it to the deck by the tiller or on the back wall of the cockpit below where the tiller goes? Doesn't make too much sense to me to have it on the tiller - makes the tiller hard to raise/lower, the ropes are in the way of opening the storage compartment door (which one might wish to access while sailing), etc. Any insight I may be missing?

(3) Does anyone have any experience with a Tiller Tamer? Makes sense to me to have it, although I have no experience with it. There is an old one on the tiller, and it looks like it's time to replace it...but before I drop the $$ on a new one, does anyone have stories to share about it? Thanks!

[Rick Westlake]

(1) Tiller on my 26S (wood) is in pretty bad shape. Doesn't look like anyone has done anything to it in 15 years... Most of the coating is gone from the top and part way down the sides, and the exposed wood is rough. I was thinking of removing what's left of the old varnish (?) with paint thinner and such, and then sanding it smooth in order to coat it. I have a can of polyurethane that I was going to use for something else but haven't...any reason I can't put a couple good coats of that on the wood and be done for now? It may not last 15 more years, but shouldn't it hold up for a while? Boat usage will be day sailing, overnighting, and will be trailered and stored in the backyard.

You're right on point with that. The Mac tiller is solid hardwood, so you don't have to worry about delamination or anything like that. Bring it in, sand it, varnish it (I take it you mean polyurethane varnish) ... it will take more than "a couple good coats," though; probably at least six thin coats, and if Beija-Flor's rudder was any indication you'll want to re-do it each season.

(2) Tiller has the cleat used for raising the rudder on it. I can only think that this would be located on the tiller for one of two reasons (or both)...so that as you turned the rudder, no undue forces were put on the rudder by the rope...and/or so that you could raise the tiller, cleat the rudder, and then lower the tiller to help you lift the rudder. The latter seems silly, so I'm thinking the first is the only logical explanation. Is there any reason I can't take that cleat/rope off the tiller and mount it to the deck by the tiller or on the back wall of the cockpit below where the tiller goes? Doesn't make too much sense to me to have it on the tiller - makes the tiller hard to raise/lower, the ropes are in the way of opening the storage compartment door (which one might wish to access while sailing), etc. Any insight I may be missing?

I would suggest that you try it the way it is before you try something new.

(3) Does anyone have any experience with a Tiller Tamer? Makes sense to me to have it, although I have no experience with it. There is an old one on the tiller, and it looks like it's time to replace it...but before I drop the $$ on a new one, does anyone have stories to share about it? Thanks!

I found the Tiller Tamer useful as all-get-out on Beija-Flor, when it came time to go up on the foredeck and deal with sails. I think you could do just fine by just replacing the line, before you go out and buy new hardware. It's so simple that there's hardly anything that can go wrong with it.

Good luck, and have fun!

[anthony]

Hi Vizwhiz
With regard to the state of your tiller- rudder. When I purchased "Nanna" the PO had coated it with bottom paint and it looked awfull. But as I cleaned it up after taking it all apart I found 2 lovely piece of wood underneath, not sure if it is teak or mahogany, but with some care and attention to keeping the profile I sanded it and coated it with spar varnish (5 or 6 coats) now it gleems, the tiller also gleems, both are original to the boat I am sure (1975)
I do take the rudder off the boat about once a month and just give it a bit of a clean I get a bit of algae on it but it wipes off easily.
So that being said go for it and bring it back your hard work will be rewarded.

[Mike C.]

Oddly enough that was last weeknds project.
I removed my tiller and sanded it down. It looked terrible when I started. I wish I had taken a before picture. Almost no coating at all, and rough gray wood. Some good sanding and it looks great. mine is a laminated tiller with wood stripes. Looks like teak and some white wood alternating (ash?).
Next weekend I will put on many coats of polyurathane varnish, and buy a tiller cover.
So far its been an easy and rewarding project.

Mike

[Sumner]

Make sure the polyurethane is marked exterior on the can.

I'm confused on the lines you are describing on the tiller. There should be a line that comes up from the rudder that is the downhaul line and holds the rudder down. It comes up through the post the rudder attaches to and attaches to a cleat on the top of the tiller.

Here is a ....



....picture of ours and you can see we put a releasable cam cleat on the top of the stock cleat that we got from Duckworks and releases the downhaul if you hit something. I believe this is well worth the small cost for it. Ours released a couple times in Florida.

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... ing-1.html

We have another line that pulls the rudder up at night and we just attach it to the pushpit/solar mounts in the back. It hangs loose while we sail and at night we pull the rudder up parallel to the water surface on anchor and tie it off.

c ya,

Sum

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[Rick Westlake]

Aha, now that makes sense - the rudder hold-down cleat DOES need to be on the tiller, in a 26 Classic's case.

The self-releasing camcleat is an extremely good idea. I have them for each of the twin rudders on Bossa Nova (remember, she's a 26X) and I have had them "pop" a few times, in the shallows, as well.

[Sumner]

.....The self-releasing camcleat is an extremely good idea.......

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware/cl ... /index.htm

A good deal for the money,

Sum

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[vizwhiz]

Thanks guys! I just checked the can of polyurethane I have and it's "interior only"...will have to get another can.

Okay, based on what you guys are telling me, the PO had the rudder lifting line wrapped around the cleat on the tiller, and the downhaul, which is actually a cable in this case, runs up to the top of the tiller post and...just stops... So I don't need the rudder lift line on the tiller - can take that off. Will have to tie a small piece of line to the downhaul so it can be used properly - and you're right, the releasing cleat is a great idea and at a great price...will invest in one of those right away.

As for the tiller tamer, the one that's on there has been destroyed by UV...well, the little block pulley on it has been destroyed...the rest of it looks a bit crazed like it's been in the sun too long...I'm not ready to use it yet but will be soon enough, so I'll have to figure out what to do...can you buy blocks/pulleys by themselves that way?

[Ixneigh]

Beh I never cared for that tiller tamer. I could never get my boat to sail herself with it for more the a few minutes. Until I fixed her so she could steer herself using the mizzen sails boom (not applicable in 99.999 percent of venture boats) I used to tack the boat but not adjust the jib to the new tack, effectivly heaving the boat to. Almost any sailboat will mind herself like this quietly and for hours if need be while you fix something or make lunch. I also had an electric autopilot that worked ok.
Some people use the tiller tamer to hold the tiller centered while at anchor but I find it's better to tie it off to one side just with a piece of line. My rudder kicks up all the way out of the water so now it does not bang around do much.

[vizwhiz]

Sumner, I really like the striped effect of the laminates in Kera Jane's tiller...that's pretty! **
Mine looks like a..a...chunk of driftwood...by comparison!
I'll have to make it work for now, and then consider upgrading...

**speaking of which, I'll be down there in Port Charlotte again next week - will see if I can swing by the marina and check on KJ for ya...can you see her from the road?

[Sumner]

Sumner, I really like the striped effect of the laminates in Kera Jane's tiller...that's pretty! **
Mine looks like a..a...chunk of driftwood...by comparison!
I'll have to make it work for now, and then consider upgrading...

**speaking of which, I'll be down there in Port Charlotte again next week - will see if I can swing by the marina and check on KJ for ya...can you see her from the road?

The boat came with an IdaSailor rudder and centerboard and I think that is where the tiller came from also.

You can't see the boat from the road. You have to go in. If you do go to the office and give them my name and tell them you want to take a look at the boat for me or you could probably go in and drive down past the office and take the first right and head towards the ramp and it will be on the left before you get to the ramp. Where it is in the pictures that are with the trip report.

They took a look at it a couple weeks ago when I wasn't sure that I had secured the furler good, but I wouldn't mind someone taking another look.

Print this out and take it with you,

Sumner

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[esc]

Aha, now that makes sense - the rudder hold-down cleat DOES need to be on the tiller, in a 26 Classic's case.

The self-releasing camcleat is an extremely good idea. I have them for each of the twin rudders on Bossa Nova (remember, she's a 26X) and I have had them "pop" a few times, in the shallows, as well.

I had read somewhere else here that a good strong bungee cord would work well also.
I went and bought a bunch of 3/8" bungee/shock cord from West Marine that I was planning on using to replace the rudder lines on my .

Any opinion on the relative merits of bungee vs the self releasing cam-cleat?

Off Hand, I would guess that the cam-cleat with real rope would last longer than the bungee cord.
But the bungee would not have to be re-set after hitting something.

[Sumner]

........Any opinion on the relative merits of bungee vs the self releasing cam-cleat?

Off Hand, I would guess that the cam-cleat with real rope would last longer than the bungee cord.
But the bungee would not have to be re-set after hitting something.

We have maybe had the rudder go up maybe 12 times in 2 years. It takes maybe 10 seconds to reset it, no big deal. I'd rather have it come up and stay up until I can determine the reason it came up in the first place.

If you we to say go over a long rock with the cam-cleat the rudder would hit once and come up. Then you could look at the depth finder and decide it you want to pull it back down.

Now say you hit the long rock with the bungee. The bungee will want to hold the rudder down and drag it along the rock or bottom or whatever obstacle that was hit. I"m not crazy about that. I'm speaking from the perspective of a "S" owner so don't know how this would apply to the "X".

We also like to have the rudder up while on anchor at night so that if the boat swings into shallower water the rudder won't his bottom or something from the side. Also where we anchor might be to shallow to have the rudder down period. With the cam cleat you just snap the line out of the cleat and then take the uphaul ine and pull the rudder up and tie that line off to something. Very quick and easy.

c ya,

Sum

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[esc]

If you we to say go over a long rock with the cam-cleat the rudder would hit once and come up. Then you could look at the depth finder and decide it you want to pull it back down.

Now say you hit the long rock with the bungee. The bungee will want to hold the rudder down and drag it along the rock or bottom or whatever obstacle that was hit. I"m not crazy about that. I'm speaking from the perspective of a "S" owner so don't know how this would apply to the "X".

We also like to have the rudder up while on anchor at night so that if the boat swings into shallower water the rudder won't his bottom or something from the side. Also where we anchor might be to shallow to have the rudder down period. With the cam cleat you just snap the line out of the cleat and then take the uphaul ine and pull the rudder up and tie that line off to something. Very quick and easy.

c ya,

Sum

That is a good point about dragging the rudder. But I would like to look at the relative tension needed to lift the rudder against the bungee vs free it with the self releasing cleat and what damage could be done by the innitial impact...

With the bungee I should be able to pre-load it with whatever amount of tension is appropriate for the area I will be cruising. The areas I will be doing most of my sailing, Galveston bay and Clear Lake, have muddy bottoms and shallow water and I believe will be well suited to the bungee.

As far as pulling the rudder(s) up at night, the bungee would not prevent that in any way. Basically I would have a big loop that passes through the center of a cleat. Pull the loop one way to hold the rudder down and the other to lift it.

I think that, since I already have the bungee, I will give it a try. As long as it is strong enough to hold the rudder down under most circumstances (something I am not sure of), it has to be better than the plain old rope on a plain old cleat that I have now.

[Sumner]

.....I would like to look at the relative tension needed to lift the rudder against the bungee vs free it with the self releasing cleat and what damage could be done by the innitial impact.........

Just so you know you can adjust the release tension needed with the cleat. Good luck with the bungee and don't forget you don't want the rudder coming up while underway at all as it will stress the rudder and bracket more and more the further it is up.

Sum

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