Messing with Real Sailboats

[ROAD Soldier]

Last day sailing on my Mac 26X for awhile. Ran into a little club racers with their real sailboats. This situation caused me to make and break a new year resolution all within an hour. The boats are a lot closer then they appear in the video I shot with my cell phone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC4lhHC_fxs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08Fo5H4lskc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iWDPjENO_k

[Fxwg80hd]

Nice!!

[c130king]

My experience with "racers"...even smaller ones...is that they are definitely faster than me. I have sailed through a couple of races and they were definitely getting better performance from the same wind than I was.





These guys (in the pics) were definitely faster than me and I was scrambling to stay out of there way in the fairly narrow channel.

But I love to "attack" the "non-racers"...if I see any boat out there by itself I head straight for it and then compare performance. Lately I seem to have had better performance than most I have encountered. Of course most of them have been a little smaller...love picking on the little guys...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaLqg4tu6lM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTPrfPdFbPQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB1yTyEAxNc

Hopefully there will be some other boats out tomorrow.

Cheers,
Jim
Sailing on König
Sailing on König YouTube Channel

[Rob S]

I sailed my for three years but the racing bug had got to me so I sold it last February and bought a Capri 25 which is very much a racing cruiser, so I can now easily compare the two.

It's not so much that the "real" sailboats are a lot faster, they're a BIT faster. The biggest difference is their ability to point. The Capri is especially good at this, outpoints most of the other cruisers about as much as they outpoint the Mac.

I loved my . I consider it an absolutley ingenious design, that gives you a bit of everything. Spacious comfortable cabin and cockpit for the size of boat; sails nicely; easy to single hand (such therapy!); easy to launch/recover/trailer; amazing motoring abilities for a sailboat.

But it's a compromise, and one of the compromises is sailing efficiency, that's just the nature of the beast. Why?...... it has a small unweighted centerboard instead of a keel..... that allows you to beach or gunkhole in ridiculously shallow water, and easily trailer, and at a low weight. But it's no match for an efficient weighted keel in pointing ability or that would allow a bigger sail plan. It also has a hybrid semi planing hull that allows you to motor at 15+ knots. You could never do that in a classic sailboat. If you strapped a 50hp outboard to a classic sailboat, it would never get to 15kts, and it would be totally unstable. But the planing hull is less efficient at not disturbing the water at typical sailing speed.... just look over your transom and see all the eddies left behind in your wake. That's extra drag and slows you down a little. A classic sailboat doesn't leave so many swirls.

So it's just a matter of don't sweat what the Mac can't do as well and just enjoy the heck out of what it can. You could probably do a home project to modify a Mac..... fill in the centerboard trunk, attach an efficient weighted fixed keel, use a larger mast and sail plan etc. It would point and sail better, but it wouldn't be as trailerable, it wouldn't go in shallow water, you would have to limit your motoring speed because of the un-retractable keel....... in other words, it just wouldn't be a Mac anymore and it still wouldn't be quite as fast as the other sailboats because of the hull...... so what would be the point?

For me, I couldn't ignore the fact that I wanted to get into hard-core racing. I never had enough time to trailer. I'm on a river where there are only two directions, upstream or downstream, so there are not so many places you can go as you might by motoring across a lake or estuary for instance. I do miss being able to get 8 miles up-river quite quickly, and the Capri is WAY harder to single hand, in fact it can be quite exhausting. But with a trained crew (my son and his pals), in a race, this boat kicks butt! We even won a couple of regattas this year...... I love to tell my competitors that everything I know about sailing and racing I learnt in a Macgregor! It's true, trying so hard to squeeze every last bit of performance out of my taught me such a lot and I'll be eternally grateful for what my Mac did for me.

I miss this site and this community..... I still look in from time to time but don't have so much in common anymore. I wish there was something this vibrant for the Capri 25, the nearest thing is something that gets a post every few weeks or so. You guys love the heck out of your boats, and so you should!! Go ahead and mix it up with other sailboats, enjoy it when you get past them, don't be surprised when you can't..... it is what it is. Macs racing Macs would be every bit as much fun as anything I now do. It's not about speed and performance, it's about a level playing field, teamwork, and tactics.

[c130king]

Hopefully there will be some other boats out tomorrow.

There weren't...

I guess I am the only one crazy enough to go out in the rain with temps in the mid 40's.

But I did get to wear my cool yellow foul-weather gear (aka - Bananna Suit).

I gave up after about 90 minutes. But while motoring I went through an "ice flow"...the ice wasn't bad but lots of floating "sea weed" (river weed???) had built up around the ice flow and wrapped around my rudders and prop. I was able to get the weed off but then my "tell tale" flow just about completely stopped flowing. I think I may have sucked some weed residue up inside my motor.

Motored back in with very little water (but some) flowing out the "tell tale". Ran the motor on the hose after I pulled it out the water...got a little more flow but not as much as usual. Oh well...

Cheers,
Jim
Sailing on König
Sailing on König YouTube Channel

[pokerrick1]

I guess I am the only one crazy enough to go out in the rain with temps in the mid 40's.

This sounds to me like perfect stay in the slip; lay on the couch or the aft berth and take a three hour nap weather

Rick

[Rick Westlake]

Rob S, you have it pinned.

Every boat is a compromise - it does some things well, and other things not-so-well. A hull that's good for sailing is unlikely to be as good for a power-boat; a keel that's great for keeping your boat upright is going to be difficult to put on a trailer; a boat with a hull something more like a powerboat, with water ballast and a little swing-down centerboard - a 26-foot sailing dinghy, when you get down to it - is not likely to go around the buoys like a J-Boat, or a Capri 25.

I appreciate it that you recognize, and remember with love, the things your X did well. These are much the same things for which I bought Bossa Nova. She proved herself out pretty well during my Florida "trailer-and-sail-her" trip last month, even if I got frustrated trying to tack back up Gasparilla Sound against both wind and current. (But then again, her big motor brought me back to that trip's base in good order.)

My future, the way I see it now, may include a good sea-kindly cruising keelboat; something quite a bit bigger than Bossa Nova, designed and built and equipped to take on a circumnavigation, but not so big I can't handle it solo. I'm far from ready for this, now. But I can explore the life-style aboard Bossa Nova, sailing and living aboard for a week or two at a time ... or more ... learning if I can be comfortable with living aboard, discovering whatever tricks make it work for me, and all without having to sell my shoreside home and move aboard a bigger boat for the experiment.

Racing is what you want to do - you bought the right kind of boat for it - and you're enjoying it and doing well at it. Kudos to you, Rob. Have fun!

[Rob S]

Thanks, Rick. And good luck with your future ambitions too. That sounds exciting!

[jschrade]

I have learned a ton on my 26M and chasing other sailboats is great fun - on a reach that is . I have learned lots about tweaking and tuning the sails (still a lot more to go).

Like Rick, this is my test bed to see if the reality of staying on a boat is a good as the fantasy. I have quickly realized some things that are rather important - refrigeration, shower, standing headroom in the cabin and cockpit storage space ...

I have had some opportunities to go out on some other boats and it's clear that I will be moving up at some point in the future. As mentioned, there are compromises in any change and I would miss the motoring speed, shallow draft and low expense of the 26M. This make a Catamaran look attractive but other than a Gemini, these are pretty pricey.


Jim

[TAW02]

I have learned a ton on my 26M and chasing other sailboats is great fun - on a reach that is . I have learned lots about tweaking and tuning the sails (still a lot more to go).

Like Rick, this is my test bed to see if the reality of staying on a boat is a good as the fantasy. I have quickly realized some things that are rather important - refrigeration, shower, standing headroom in the cabin and cockpit storage space ...

I have had some opportunities to go out on some other boats and it's clear that I will be moving up at some point in the future. As mentioned, there are compromises in any change and I would miss the motoring speed, shallow draft and low expense of the 26M. This make a Catamaran look attractive but other than a Gemini, these are pretty pricey.


Jim

My former boss was a monohull racing freak. Started back in the mid 50's he became absessed with sailing and racing over the sea. Owned a maxZ86 class sailing yacht commissioned in 2004. Built in the Cookson shipyard Auckland NZ. The thing is a modern turbo-sled. It's equipped with a hydraulic canting keel, which allows it to shift its keel balast in order to reach previously unthinkable speeds! With the pleasure of riding along and watching the sites out of Maui the crew nonchalantly spun her up to the winds bringing us up to well over 25kts! I was impressed.

All in all ... I am not a racing freak. Really never was. Trains planes and automobiles need not apply with me. The beauty of riding on the wind or cranking her up on the genny and pulling my grandkids on the tubes is my thing. The Mac is my love and will always be there in my heart.

[ROAD Soldier]

It's not so much that the "real" sailboats are a lot faster, they're a BIT faster. The biggest difference is their ability to point. The Capri is especially good at this, outpoints most of the other cruisers about as much as they outpoint the Mac.

Ok I am not going to make something up here and say I totally wooped those other real sailboats behind but you all did see those videos I sent right. I wasn't faster than any of them but with my two head sails I wasn't slower either. If I was it was only a tiny-tiny bit, and as far as pointing there was one that pointed better than me. I have no idea what type of boats they were since when it comes to real sailboat I only have interest in heavy cruisers and none of them were that. So bottom line here is do some mods to your Mac beat it like a cheap two dollar fun lady and see how it lines up with those real sailboats before giving some MAMBI PAMBI speech on how much a Mac is a compromise that you love like a trusty ball and chain. Yep my New Years Resolution is official broken now.

[Rob S]

So bottom line here is do some mods to your Mac beat it like a cheap two dollar fun lady and see how it lines up with those real sailboats before giving some MAMBI PAMBI speech on how much a Mac is a compromise that you love like a trusty ball and chain. Yep my New Years Resolution is official broken now.

Now, come on ....... if my speech is going to get you to break your Resolution, let's get the facts right......it's namby pamby, not mambi pambi. Good luck with the speed tweaks. I highly recommend the double mainsheet "Poor Man's Traveler" for an X. It makes the main's shape a lot easier to contol particularly in very light or very heavy air.

[bscott]

RobS, congrats on the Capri 25--I had one for 5 years and carried a 118 handicap. I sold it for a profit and bought my . It was a great racer/cruiser but my crew moved away and racing wasn't for us any more. You'll love the speed and razor sharp handling--keep lots of meat on the rail

Bob

[Rob S]

Thanks Bob, yes it's a fun boat with full crouching headroom in the cabin. What's that 118 number? Portsmouth? If it was a PHRF it might have been kinder if they'd made you drag an anchor around!!