Bad performance beating

[elvatoli]

Yesterday we took last place on our sail race.
The wind was blowing 20-21 mph with gusts of 26-30 South-South East
The comitee advice us to use a reefed main with no jib
The first buoy was completely ahead against the wind
We have to sail like 35 degrees to the north and never get enough speed to do a right takin. We wee using full keel. Than we saw the other boats using full main and some jib and heeling at 30 or more degrees.
They made it well and we never get even close to the first buoy because on our left side ther was a concrete bridge that dont let use go further.
So maybe our boats are not good performance beating boats or We still dont know enough how to handle. Someone told us that we need to change the rudders for the performance ida sailors

Hector
Port Isabel, Texas

[Russ]

Were you racing against other Macs? Then you may have been doing something wrong. Against other pure sailboats, the Mac will always lose. Get used to it.

I'm not sold on the IDA rudders being worth it. I have read that Mac rudders are rarely parallel. I'm going to check mine next season.


--Russ

[ROAD Soldier]

I got to applaud your courage racing without first know your vessel and how to handle it in certain winds, but your wisdom is another story. This is not a time for trial by fire and making the rest of us look bad 20-21mph winds there is no reason why you couldn't have flown a full Genoa with one reef in the main while moving as much weight up front as you can. Now learn from this and educate yourself with some of the rigging mods people have done here like mine with 2 headsails, others with bow spirits, and Highlander if you have a lot of craftsmanship skill and time with his ultimate set up. Then take that education and apply it then practice, practice, and practice then reenter those races and you will stop making us look bad and may even win a few.

[Trouts Dream]

MY 2 cents...
At least on an X I need some foresail going to wind or I can't tack. Since I have a roller furler (CDI) with a 150 genoa I tend to reef the foresail first, its easier and I can let off and retrieve the main sail quicker in gusts. When its time to reef the Main I tend to go to the second reef and let more foresail out again because its more difficult to reef the main (I still do it in under a minute)I only want to do it once.

As for racing non macgregors I negotiate a lot of headstart or lots of handicap time. If they are unwilling to do this then I negotiate no more than 10 minutes of engine time per hour.

[Currie]

Personally, I've found sailing with main-only to be a poor choice when trying to point-up with my 26M in brisk conditions. There is so much weather helm, I can almost feel the rudders dragging sideways thru the water. After trying it a couple of times, I found I had much better balance and speed (on a beat, and on all points) with a reefed main and a working jib. I'd also be interested to see how it handles with genoa-only (I don't have one yet). The problem is, it's best to sheet the genny between the stays when beating - kind of a tough maneuver in a race.

~Bob

[Trouts Dream]

If I raced seriously, or more often, I thought of running extra sheets on my genoa, one set outside the shrouds and back to my ezcleats and the other set inside the shrouds and to the winch. I just might try that next summer (if I can remember that in 6 months)

[Gater Dunn]

Is this how you get three sheets to the wind

If I raced seriously, or more often, I thought of running extra sheets on my genoa, one set outside the shrouds and back to my ezcleats and the other set inside the shrouds and to the winch. I just might try that next summer (if I can remember that in 6 months)

[ROAD Soldier]

Sticking with the Redneck words of wisdom on competion sports "If you aint cheaten you aint trying hard enough" I was thinking about the follow mod. Replacing my centerboard with an E-Pod electric motor that retracts up and down like a dagerboard. I figure with just a little modifaction to the trunck area of the it should fit. Then I could sail just like before using the motor for the keel and when needed to put other to shame just turn on that little quit hum-dinger and noone else would be the wiser.

[vizwhiz]

Good topic...I'm interested in two things (ON topic, that is!)

First, I thought 20-21 knots would be considered a bit on the higher side - I've heard many time you guys saying you wouldn't do much sailing above 25 normally, and once it hits 30 you go have a beer... or did I just hear all of that wrong? If 20-21 isn't all that high, or there is a big difference between 20 and 25...then...well, that's what I'm asking...

Second, the double sheets on the foresail...where do you normally run them (now I'm confused) and why would you put the "other" set there?

Thanks!

[ROAD Soldier]

Good topic...I'm interested in two things (ON topic, that is!)

First, I thought 20-21 knots would be considered a bit on the higher side - I've heard many time you guys saying you wouldn't do much sailing above 25 normally, and once it hits 30 you go have a beer... or did I just hear all of that wrong? If 20-21 isn't all that high, or there is a big difference between 20 and 25...then...well, that's what I'm asking...

Second, the double sheets on the foresail...where do you normally run them (now I'm confused) and why would you put the "other" set there?

Thanks!

Ok to start with the original speed was 20-21 MPH not knots but that's mocks nicks you still are on the first reef only, at least for me anyways. Unless there is a critical breaking wave element in there that change everything 20MPH first reef, 25MPH 2nd reef, and at 30MPH drink some beer until you feel you can handle sailing in 30MPH. Now before you ask the next question what do you mean by critical breaking wave element? Let me answer it now. I treat sailing like I treated Rockcrawling with my Jeep in Colorado. When Rockcrawling being inches from a 500ft plus cliff didn't bother me. Being at a steep angle 45 degrees plus up or down didn't bother me. Being off Camber by more than 28 but less than 35 degrees didn't bother me. However being off Camber at 30 degrees while pointing up or down by 45 degrees inches from a 500FT cliff scared the crap out of me so I took extra precautions in those situations. Likewise if I am somewhere like the Eastern Shore of the Chesapeake Bay during a Westerly wind that due to the 20 miles of fetch that waves have built to 4-6ft at just 15 MPH winds I will reef like my life depends on it; because it does.

[markdartist]

Sailing single handed to wind in a breeze of 20-21 mph with gusts of 26-30 (17kn, gusts to 25.5kn) in protected waters is a lot of fun with a reefed main and standard jib.

While Mac X & M models are not race boats, there is no reason not to join informal or ‘beer can races’. But first, skippers must learn boat handling and the basic rules of racing. Practice turning around a buoy, up and down wind, until steering a controlled course and rounding the mark is perfected. If any skipper need ask advice as to the best sail configuration for any given conditions, they are not ready to race.

My experience is that the X sails much better to wind with main and jib.

For the conditions above, reef the main and pull the foot tight. Move the cabin top jib cars aft to open the headsail leech. If the boat has a roller furler, only let out 2/3 of the sail until comfortable. Be sure the center board is full down. Weight should be aft and to wind, both to counter heel and keep the bow up.

In my opinion, the 150 genoa, unless sailing downwind, is too big for winds above 15kn. Even when partially furled, its shape is a poor substitute for a jib. When running down wind, running the jib sheet aft using the genoa cars makes it easier to run wing & wing without a whisker pole. Even better, fly an a-sail.

See my latest vid ‘Meet My Boat 3’ for an example of reaching in wind a bit over 15kn. Beginning at 5:19,The video shows tacking and turning onto a run in good wind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OxykDlvc1M

[vkmaynard]

Reefed main and standard jib in those conditions. As a guess the boat has the least drag at heel angles less than 20ish deg.

Here is a comparison, we had a standard jib and reefed main in winds that were hitting 20+ mph at times with a no more than 20 deg heel. Erik had a full main a furled Genoa (he tried not furled also) with a lot more heel. Erick had a weighted centerboard while we had more weight on the lee side of our boat. You can see the speed difference and the higher point.

In lower winds Erik beat us out with a full Genoa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_5Cb3flN60

[Divecoz]

Lots of good information already given for sail declination..
I too offer you up huge KUDO's for even trying........ Racing Anything ...is far different from just doing it.. I just B&L sail my boat. I have raced Cars and Motorcycles and Competed in Cross Country Ski events for a few years.. Racing takes a LOT of practice !!!
Last race of my last year, and knowing my standing wouldn't really change No matter where I placed.. I saw a young fellow on the line. One I recognized from my practice times and I just Blew Off That Race to coach him.. He had Strength Endurance and Tenacity ... he lacked some / much of the mechanics..
He got a whole lot better by the end of that race.. Practice Practice Practice..

[elvatoli]

The other boats competing were a Benetau 40, a Gemini Catamaran and a Catalina 30, all of them made it very good. The catalina was healing at 30 + deg.
We cant make it to the first buoy completely against the wind, so we sailed at 35 degrees to have a beating reach but dont have enough room to continue because a concrete bridge is on our way. For me it looked like they were sailing at 30 or less degrees against the wind with full main and half jib,
We were using reefed main and 30% jib full keel.
I heard that maybe against the wind you need to have half keel or less ?

Hector , PI, TX

[magnetic]

I am an extremely poor sailor and the is a relatively poor sailing boat; however, I have not only clocked up a fair few hours sailing larger yachts, but during 2009 had the benefit of some one-2-one trim training on the Mac when I was in Dubai. It's like riding a bike; initially baffling and a little daunting, but once you have grasped it, it's largely instinctive.

In the conditions you describe sailing on the Main alone would be a hiding to nothing, as the Centre of Effort will be way back and the boat will tend to weather up as it heels (especially in gusts); the rudder angle necessary to compensate will inevitably create drag, which will slow you down and compromise tacking. Beating into 20mph of TRUE wind the full 150 genoa is certainly overkill, but if you reduce sail, move the cars forward and tighten the sheet in (to move the belly of the sail downwards and backwards, and give a finer entry point in spite of the smaller and consequenrly higher sail) you should be able to point moderately well without continually luffing up, and thereby maintain enough momentum to tack. I would recommend full board down - although this may reduce Speed Through the Water, in a light boat with a high profile like the Mac it will improve Velocity Made Good towards a windward mark quite significantly.

The Main itself needs to be reefed, flattened and untwisted in these conditions; slight luffing is not a major concern, as you have surplus power in the Genny in any case, and in this situation the Main is providing balance rather than forward motion. On the beat, let the Traveller out to leeward, make sure the halyard and the outhaul are really tight, and play the Main Sheet in the gusts rather than the wheel. Remember, the Genny is driving the boat, the Main is controlling the heel and weather/lee helm by opening or closing the leech*. The key to this is to tolerate the windward telltale fluttering out slightly, rather than streaming back (as the leeward one should be doing if properly trimmed).

*Closing the leech of the Main increases heeling forces, thereby increasing weather helm and causing the boat to round up; counter this primarily through the position of the Traveller (and to a lesser extent the Main Sheet). If the gusts are moderate rather than severe, you may get better VMG upwind by leaving the Main Sheet and Wheel completely alone and playing the Traveller until the sail is just starting to luff. Constantly turning the wheel will slow you down - as another contributor has commented, if you need more than 10 degrees of rudder angle, you have a trim problem. I would add that if you are consistently heeled at 25 degrees or more, you are probably flying too much canvas; reduce both sails in similar proportion although, as the size of the furler- Genny can be fine-tuned whilst slab reefs in the main are fairly crude adjustments, reduce the Main first and more.

I do not have vast experience of competitive racing or sailing the above F4, but in my case wave motion is almost always a bigger challenge than wind strength. In these circumstances I favour "punching" power over pointing angle, and consequently tend not to flatten the sails too much. At sea, in 15 knots TRUE and heeled at around 20 degrees I can typically maintain around 4 knots SOG at 45 degrees to the APPARENT wind, although VMG towards a windward mark is far less due to leeway and the the fact that the apparent wind moves forwards quite significantly, such that I am probably closer to 60 degrees off the TRUE wind. Hope this helps.