26X Battery bank questions

[rjhpilot91]

I need some help with setting up my battery banks in my . I bought the boat this past august and it came with 2 batteries wired together, a deep cycle and a starting battery. No dual switch, just a batteries on or off switch. Finall after the boat sat for three weeks the motor failed to start due to a lack of juice. I took both batts home and charged them and then reinstalled and tried again. Again it would not crank. I unhooked the deep cycle battery and tried to crank with just the starting battery, but no luck. After I hooked up just the deep cycle it cranked like a champ. The voltage on the starting battery was about 12.5 while the deep cycle batt showed 13.5. So apparently the bad battery was sucking down the good one when trying to crank.

I want to be able to use a stereo and lights and some electronics while I sail on a deep cycle battery and keep my starting battery topped off to guarantee a good start. How would I wire up my boat to remedy this issue. If I power the boat using a 1-2-both switch, will a used up deep cycle house battery drain down a good starting battery as I saw when they were previously wired together?

Any advice would be great. Thanks.

[Wa2paa]

Well,

Just get one of these, and Two New Batteries, and some nice new Marine Grade Battery Cables...
and You will never have a problem.

http://www.bepmarine.com/home-mainmenu- ... ng-cluster
Good Luck
Captain jack

[Laika 26X]

This is what you want:

Blue Sea "Add a Battery" P/N 7650

Available at most retailers like West Marine. Check out their "West Advisor" Articles.

For further questions, refer to LAIKA’s schematic

A dual battery system installation is a “Walk in the park”, no biggie for even a novice DIY’er

Have fun!

"Sub" Ed Tordahl
S/V LAIKA
USCG Auxiliary
Qualified Crew
Qualified Aids (Nav) Verifier
Qualified Public Education Instructor
NYS Qualified Safe Boating Instructor

[40Toes]

Marine Battery Guard. These are the last line of defense to ensure you have juice to turn your engine over when all else fails:

http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/n ... X312-.html

Man, what isn't made in China these days - they really do work though. There are different brands out there but they basically all do the same thing.

Rod

[bartmac]

Having 2 batteries of different charging requirements on the one system is asking for trouble.We've gone to 2 batteries (same model same capacity and age) both marine semi deep cycle on a 1-2 both switch and then a dc-dc charger to charge our deep cycle battery bank.This will allow both starting batteries to charge properly and the dc-dc charger is adjustable for what type of battery the deep cycle bank...ie gel, matt etc etc.The other thing we've done is to have a voltage sensitive relay between the starting battery bank and the deep cycle so the start batteries have to get up in voltage before the auxilary bank gets its charge.I guess too the need for larger batteries is driven by usage,we tend not to use our motor and have refrigeration on board so our usage is constant ie all day and night and determined by ambient temp.To that end we also have 180 watts of solarpanels charging our deep cycle bank with a programable controller which when the bank reaches float it will also float the start batteries

[c130king]

If you have the time and the interest definitely do a search on the forum as this has been discussed many times. There are many options and many opinions....

Here is mine. I recently upgraded to two Interstate Deep Cycle Batteries ($72 each if I recall correctly). I bought a BlueSeas 1-2-Both-Off Switch ($40ish I think)...one switch seemed easier to me. And based on advice from others on this board I don't have a "house" battery and a "start" battery. Both batteries provide power for everything. On odd days of the month I use battery 1 and on even days I use battery 2. Both batteries are joined by a Yandina Combiner ($59) which ensures that both batteries get charged whenever the motor is running. Also had to buy a couple battery cables...don't remember how much they were.

As was mentioned by Ed this was a fairly easier mod...and I have very limited electrical/mechanical skills.

I also installed a new 8-switch fuse panel and a stereo and VHF DSC radio at the same time. And I installed a Raymarine Wheel Pilot. I run my Chartplotter all day and the Wheel Pilot runs a lot and I have never had an issue with batteries. Many here will say it is pretty much a waste to have a dedicated start battery as the outboards we use just don't normally need that much juice.

Do a search on "Battery Switch" and you will get many hits...doing a search on "battery" might get too many. Use "Advanced Search" (upper right corner of this screen if you are unfamiliar) and select the option to display the results by "topic" as this will make it a little easier to scroll through topics until you see some that seem relevant...there are lots.

Good luck. And you can always ask questions here and the great folks here will overload you with their thoughts, opinions, and good info.

Cheers,
Jim
Sailing on König

[Gypsy]

Here is mine. I recently upgraded to two Interstate Deep Cycle Batteries ($72 each if I recall correctly). I bought a BlueSeas 1-2-Both-Off Switch ($40ish I think)...one switch seemed easier to me. And based on advice from others on this board I don't have a "house" battery and a "start" battery. Both batteries provide power for everything. On odd days of the month I use battery 1 and on even days I use battery 2. Both batteries are joined by a Yandina Combiner ($59) which ensures that both batteries get charged whenever the motor is running. Also had to buy a couple battery cables...don't remember how much they were.


Sailing on König

This is the simplest way to do it .
We call it a Perko switch ,It has positions for , Battery 1 , Batt 2 , BOTH , OFF just like He said .
But I would suggest Batt 1 be a cranking battery Batt 2 be a deep cycle battery .
When you are at anchor or dock switch to Batt 2 . Before you crank the motor switch to Batt 1

Stay on Batt 1 for the first 30 - 45minutes , then switch to Batt 2 and leave it there till you get ready to crank the engine again , then switch to Batt 1 , for cranking , repeat procedure .

This way your cranking battery is always hot , and your cabin lights , stereo etc is running on your deep cycle battery . This system has worked well for me for many years and many boats.

[raycarlson]

dont waste money buying different batts for house or starting,just get two walmart deep cycles on a perko switch and alternate their usage daily.these little 50 HP motors require little to cranck them over so even the smallest 24 size deep cycle will not be stressed crancking your motor over.if by some chance you do have a battery get weak almost all outboards up too 150hp at least , have a rope pull starter in your little tool kit.take it out and use a coupke of times before you acctually have to just so you know what to expect, my nissan 50 starts with little more effort than my evinrude 6 that only has a rope pull.the walmart everstart batts are now made by johnson controls,who also make interstate,sears diehard,optima and several others and they have a 12 or 18 month no questions asked return warranty on them so if you really wanted you could have a planned shorted cell every year and always have new batteries if you wanted to go to that much trouble.

[Russ]

This is what you want:

Blue Sea "Add a Battery" P/N 7650

Available at most retailers like West Marine. Check out their "West Advisor" Articles.

For further questions, refer to LAIKA’s schematic

Yea, this is what I would recommend.

And I would ONLY combine the batts if needed (to start motor), otherwise use the automatic combiner.

A $50 car jumper pack as a backup works well too.

--Russ

[Gypsy]

dont waste money buying different batts for house or starting,just get two walmart deep cycles on a perko switch and alternate their usage daily.these little 50 HP motors require little to cranck them over so even the smallest 24 size deep cycle will not be stressed crancking your motor over.if by some chance you do have a battery get weak almost all outboards up too 150hp at least , have a rope pull starter in your little tool kit.take it out and use a coupke of times before you acctually have to just so you know what to expect, my nissan 50 starts with little more effort than my evinrude 6 that only has a rope pull.the walmart everstart batts are now made by johnson controls,who also make interstate,sears diehard,optima and several others and they have a 12 or 18 month no questions asked return warranty on them so if you really wanted you could have a planned shorted cell every year and always have new batteries if you wanted to go to that much trouble.

You may be right about not needing a cranking battery . I wondered just how much strain a 50hp could put on a deep cycle battery . In my boat I plan to have two deep cycle batterys on the Batt 2 position , and a cranking battery on the batt 1 position , but maybe 3 deep cycles would be better.

For the sake of the guy who started this thread ,,,,,

The difference between a cranking battery and a deep cycle battery is that

A cranking battery is designed to put out a large burst of amperage for a short time , 300-400 amps for a few seconds .

A deep cycle or house battery is designed to put out a small amount of amperage over a long period of time . Such as 10amps over a 10 hour period.
To use a deep cycle to crank a large engine regurarly will shorten its life , quite a bit.
BUT our engines aren't that big ,,, hmmmm

PS The other big difference is that a cranking battery recharges quickly, where a deep cycle requires a long period to recharge. Thats the big reason the two should never be ran in the "BOTH" position for long periods of time.

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

BUT our engines aren't that big ,,, hmmmm

i've mentioned this before in other "battery" posts...
- 4 stroke outboards work at a much lower compression than 2 strokes
- for example; my 90hp 2 stroke Tohatsu (although newer technology) takes a fully charged 1000 CCA starting battery with large cables to turn it over on cold mornings. yet, once started and warmed-up, turns over easily on successive starts
- on the other hand; my previous outboard, a 50hp 4 stroke Suzuki turned over extremely easily using little battery power and small cables all the time, regardless of outside temp

so...it all depends on your particular outboard.

Bob T.
"DāBob"
'02X w/ '04 90-TLDI (14" x 11 pitch)
Dinghy Motor: '06 2.5-Suzuki

[Dido]

This week we went away in the uk for a couple of days up the river in the and some idiot left the lights on in our Jeep 3l diesel V6 cherokee (that would be me then) , when we got back the car battery was flat, luckly I had a fully charged 120amp leisure battery(deep cycle) on the boat, not used but kept two days at below zero 0C and not on charge, I swapped it for the jeep battery and it turned over the engine and started first time ! I Swapped the flat one back over and drove the 10 miles home, I put both batteries on charge and noticed the boat leisure battery was fully charged after only 45mins (using an 8 step electronic charger), now I dont know if I've shortend the life of the battery, but I think if I used it to start my 50hp mercury bigfoot (935cc) , it would find it a piece of cake ! So for me I will use my battery switch anyway I require !

[Gypsy]

This week we went away in the uk for a couple of days up the river in the and some idiot left the lights on in our Jeep 3l diesel V6 cherokee (that would be me then) , when we got back the car battery was flat, luckly I had a fully charged 120amp leisure battery(deep cycle) on the boat, not used but kept two days at below zero 0C and not on charge, I swapped it for the jeep battery and it turned over the engine and started first time ! I Swapped the flat one back over and drove the 10 miles home, I put both batteries on charge and noticed the boat leisure battery was fully charged after only 45mins (using an 8 step electronic charger), now I dont know if I've shortend the life of the battery, but I think if I used it to start my 50hp mercury bigfoot (935cc) , it would find it a piece of cake ! So for me I will use my battery switch anyway I require !

Agaisnt my better judgement , I let an Auto Zone sales rep sell me a deep cycle battery for my van .
The van had a TV in it that slowly discharged a battery , when it sat about two weeks . He assured me that cranking the vans large V8 engine on a deep cycle battery would not harm it .
Needless to say the battery was toast in little more than a year.
I bought a cranking battery , the next go round , removed the TV and lived happily ever after.

I admit I don't know if cranking a 50hp outboard with a deep cycle would be harmful or not , but frequently cranking anything larger will shorten the lifespan of a deep cycle battery by quite a bit.

Charging a deep cycle and a cranking battery at the same time in parrell will also destroy the cranking battery.

[c130king]

Disclaimer up front: I am not any sort of electrical system genius. But there are several guys on this forum that have lots of expertise and experience and I trust their opinions. And I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Based on that I agree with the position that there is no need for a dedicated start/cranking battery for the typcial Mac outboard...

But if you do want one and you have it "combined" somehow with the house battery then they need to be the same kind of battery.

And for those statements about draining a battery due to some minor juice use...have a switch that enables you to fully turn off the juice.

My two deep cycles sat from Dec 30 2009 (last day I used the boat in 2009) until Septemeber when I ran my motor again for the first time in 2010. Both batteries had plenty of juice.

My set-up and useage is listed several posts above this one...2 x Interstate Deep Cycle Group 24 combined with a Yandina Combiner and controlled by a BlueSea 1-2-Both-Off type switch. I use battery 1 on odd days and battery 2 on even days. No switching at all during the day...just switch once in the morning if I stay out overnight or turn it off when I leave the boat. So far I have very limited useage of juice (no fridge or any big juice consumers). Whichever battery I am using for the day is used to crank the motor (several times per day on average) and run the radios, GPS, stereo, lights, etc...

Just another opinion and you know what they say about those...

Cheers,
Jim
Sailing on König

[kelseydo]

You guys are great, and this is another very timely thread. I’ve been pondering the same issue getting ready for a complete re-wire. I recommend Sailboat Electrics Simplified by Don Casey http://www.amazon.com/Sailboat-Electric ... 627&sr=1-1 (ISBN 0-07-036649-7) as an easy to read reference. After a couple reads of the book and this thread, I’ve decided to:
1. Use two like (size and type) 12V batteries to simplify the charging challenge. The choice of battery type is a whole other thread we can revisit after winter really sets in.
2. Use a battery combiner like the Yandina C100 http://www.defender.com/realproduct.jsp ... &id=605576 that connects the two batteries only when one is receiving a charge. A combiner does not have the resistance of an isolator, and protects me from forgetting to join the batteries when charging.
3. One batt will be dedicated and the engine and the other directly wired to the cabin. During use the combiner keeps them separated so the engine batt is not inadvertently drained.
4. The engine batt will receive charge from the alternator and the cabin batt will be connected to a permanently installed AC charger (shore power is on the wish list). The combiner will sense the charge of either batt and connect so both are charged.
5. The batts can be connected for starting emergencies via some combiners and/or a manual switch of your choice. I’m going to re-use the 1 – 2 – Both – Off switch that came with the X to provide multiple failure recovery options.
The scheme is consistent with KISS, can be extended later, and fits my budget.
Dan