Roger's next boat (hopefully)

[Rolf]

I think the power of this board was demonstrated when we all started whining about the m's old interior until Roger finally changed it (Could there be a mole lurking about)? Now I think it's time we all list the next type of boat Roger should make.

Since I already have my X and don't ever plan to relinquish it, my vote goes for something larger, permanently in the water. Something I could get away on with my small family along with a guest family that wouldn't break the bank if I decided to power the whole time.

I've been having visions of a 40 or 50 foot, affordable powersailor (under a 100 grand). It would be similar in design to the m or x, with forward and aft cabins connected to corresponding heads, living area/galley in the middle. It could be powered by sail or 300 hp outboard for performance similar to the m/x. Quality hopefully would obviously have to be stepped up a notch, especially when it comes to fiberglass thickness/strength. I think Roger could adapt one of his narrow 65 designs without much difficulty. A boat like this would be worth the slip fees/maintenance headaches.

Roger, are you listening?

Rolf

[Jeff S]

My vote is for a higher end mid 30's boat that one could liveaboard but still had the powering and shallow draft characteristics of the 26X/M. Right now the boat that fits in that category the best is probably the PC Gemini 105MC, but it doesn't power as fast as a Mac.

[craiglaforce]

Now hear this.

30-32 foot, still water ballasted and trailerable. swing KEEL maybe 300 lbs with winch. bump the beam up a foot (I think this would still be trailerable in most places). Put a shower in the head. Boat should come standard with better ventilation (couple of SS Nicrovents). Turnbuckles on the mast wires. halyard winch on the mast (so we can adjust the mainsail better). Beef up the mast. Make windows more scratch resistant. Bow roller designed to hold a plow or danforth. Something better than a squirt gun for a sink. Propane grill/stove combo based on the Coleman little stove grill unit with automatic ignition. Make it use a squatty remote bulk propane tank in the fuel locker, with solenoid switch. Upgrade all cushions and make at least 2 reclining back seats inside. Much smaller dinette table (of nicely finished wood) right next to the stove and near a couple seats. Add storage drawers for the galley. Make the starboard cockpit bench open as a lazarette to access the dead space below. Add option for permanent deck filled water tank, pressure water system and electric hot water heater in the void below the cockpit. (nobody but rubberman is going to sleep back there). standard marine head with pumpout.

Yes it would cost more money, but I think not a huge amount more and you could totally dominate the non-ocean market.

you need a full sized truck to pull the 26X/M anyway, and it would pull this larger boat just as well. Most slips that handle a 26 would handle a 30 so slip fees should be manageble.


2 axle trailer, galvanized, with power winch that will actually seat the boat into the vee pad (these winches are almost free these days).
design the bunks to let the boat slide easier.


Make the rudders kickup with bungee like most of us have installed as a modification and increase rudder head strength by an order of magnitude.

Design the boat to accept a dodger (sell as an option) and still permit going forward past it.

Stop calling a front sail optional.

Lose the rotating mast. Lose the fabric hull liner. Keep the 26X style big open transom. Add a bridgedeck. sell screens to custom fit openings. Sell a custom tarp to cover companionway for those rainy days.
fix the darn leak points!!!!! make a mast carrier aft that also serves as a dingy hoist/MOB recovery hoist. Improve quality control on the fiberglass layup. maybe xray a few spots or something to measure and improve quality. Maybe even offer a sailing school for the boat. this is a unique boat that requires different knowledge than most other boats. Plus it attracts a lot of new boaters that would be well served by and would enjoy and pay for say a 1 week training class in some beautiful sailing area.

That is all.

Well, maybe an airconditioner. and a pony.

[Chip Hindes]

I think the power of this board was demonstrated when we all started whining about the m's old interior until Roger finally changed it (Could there be a mole lurking about)?

Roger is a pretty smart guy. IMO he would be foolish not to have someone who regularly monitors the applicable discussions on this board.

But don't kid yourself. Contributors to this board are not a major segment of Roger's target market. I think it's an open question as to whether we're even representative of the entire population of Mac owners.

The whiners Roger listens to are not the ones who already own Macs. They're the ones with dollars in hand, ready to buy (or more importantly, those who decide not to buy) his new boat. To the extent that this Board relflects the preferences of potential new boat buyers, it has (or should have) influence on the direction and design of the new boats, or on correcting the shortcomings on the existing boats.

Otherwise, we're just a bunch of annoying whiners. Lets face it: If Roger took a decent fraction of the whiners on this board into account, he'd already be building a boat with a lot of upgraded systems for $30K base price Just imagine what the whiners would be saying then.

I believe this is what happened with the M interior. The whiners on the board were saying the same thing as those who were walking out of the showrooms with their money still in their pockets, so to speak. What continues to be a mystery is why he couldn't have figured this one out before he fielded the M.

[BK]

I already mentioned I read in a sail mag that the urge to move up to a bigger boat is in all of us. I think if you did a poll among sailors you would find most moved up to a bigger boat and found they did not use it as much as their smaller boat. Jimmy Buffet was mentioned in this article as saying he moved up to a 50 footer and found he liked his smaller boat better, had more fun and used it more often than the bigger boat. He sold his 50' boat.
I had my last boat in a harbor for 13 years and noticed that 95% of the boats were hardly ever used. The first 2 years the boat was used a lot then the bigger the boat the less it was used.
Also, on a different subject, I ran across this term in a book I am reading I never saw before, "EENT." End-of-evening-nautical-twilight. The time between sunset and before dark.

[Frank & Meg]

Perhaps Roger could produce a higher end "Limited Edition" of the X or M series with all the nifty gadgets and nicer finishes that folks would like to see. If that could be done for a few grand less than a comparable Hunter/Catalina, that might be a profitable niche.

And while we're here perhaps a "cruiser" model (dare I say the "Dunn Edition") with emphasis on more robust nav tools and storage capabilities while maintaing the easy to maintain finishes might also have some possibilities.

Just a thought

How 'bout a "Moe" edition with a bigger, lower sink in the head? (Sorry Moe, couldn't resist!)

[richandlori]

I can understand Roger's approach to cookie cutter production as found in the M and X and I am greatful that I was able to get as much boat for the $ as I did in a 2004M. Add another $10K to the price and I would have definitely been in the "used" boat market instead of new.

The BIG thing I think Roger is missing out on is the Speciality after market Mac products market. Just look at our mod boad and you can see the demand. Why not add options to his "standard" package, everyone knows that the options make the $! Here are a few options that would be BIG sellers add extra $ in his pocket and if I wern't already so busy, I could see selling these myself and making good $ from them even while charging a fair price.

Mac Logo items on standard equipment: 12V DV panel, 3-way switches, lights, you get the picture. Just like West Marine takes others products (that don't have patent protection) and produce then with their logo.

Mac Sail Covers
Mac Magma knock off BBQ
interrior cushion covers
The list could go on and on. Why let the $ go to West Marine or some internet discount store when a good amount of people would pay the same for an item "specifically make" for a Mac.

I'm sure that this board alone could produce a list of items that would fill a cataloge (heck the inventory of Duane's boat alone could fill a cataloge.. ...lova ya Duane....my laoding the boat idle)

[Tom Spohn]

Chip,
I agree with you on how MacGregor zeros in on first-time buyers. He isn't perfect, but he does this better than anybody. The market that I think he is missing is the upgrade boat for those of us that already own Macs. The problem with the M is that it isn't enough of a change for satisfied X owners to trade for it. Conversations with BWY show that the dealers would love to have a "trade up" boat for their existing customers, who after owning the X or M for a few years want a larger boat, but don't want to give up the benefits of the Mac which I see as (no order intended):
1. Motoring speed and good economy
2. Reasonable purchase price and good trade-in value
3. Safe and unsinkable
4. Trailerable in all 50 states.
5. Efficient use of interior space.
6. Simple systems easy to maintain.
7. Sails reasonable well. (just OK)

If there were a Mac like this in the mid 30 ft range for less than $50K, I would be interested and I'll bet some Mac Dealers would be very happy. Whatever it looked like, it would have to be enough of a change from the 26X/M family to get current owners interested.

I thought the Telstar 28 was the boat, but it costs too much and the interior doesn't work for me. Some of the cats are close, but generally too expensive.

[Chip Hindes]

The market that I think (Roger) is missing...

He isn't missing this market at all. He doesn't care about it. Think about it. Roger's market is basic, low cost, no frills boats. He doesn't have to guess about how many people want a left handed shroud tensioner. How many to keep in inventory, warehousing, shipping, handling, stock outs, supplier delays, or anything else like that.

As long as Roger can continue to turn a good profit making and selling a basic, no frills boat, with essentially no direct competition, he has no incentive to complicate his life and his business with a lot of low volume optional stuff, or for that matter, bigger, nicer, more expensive boats to try to sell in way lower volume.

He's perfectly content to let Hunter, Columbia, Precision, J-Boats, and a bunch of others with low market share quite literally pound the crap out of each other in competition for an aditional sale or two here or there. Even if the bigger boat market isn't smaller numerically or in $$ value, it's certainly split into a whole bunch of smaller pieces. Nobody dominates any particular market segment the way Roger dominates his. If Hunter were selling their 26 for $19K, do you think Roger would be jacking the M price to $20K? Not a chance.

[Mark Prouty]

Since I already have my X and don't ever plan to relinquish it, my vote goes for something larger, permanently in the water. Something I could get away on with my small family along with a guest family that wouldn't break the bank if I decided to power the whole time.

I've been having visions of a 40 or 50 foot, affordable powersailor (under a 100 grand). It would be similar in design to the m or x, with forward and aft cabins connected to corresponding heads, living area/galley in the middle. It could be powered by sail or 300 hp outboard for performance similar to the m/x. Quality hopefully would obviously have to be stepped up a notch, especially when it comes to fiberglass thickness/strength.

Rolf

I just won 2.5 million in the Euro - Afro Asian Sweepstakes. All I will have to do is pay $1200 as adminitrative Charges to the Courier Company.

With all this money, I need a bigger boat and I like Rolf's idea! Except push that upper limit a little. Oh yea, and put all of Duane's stuff in it!! He doesn't need to supervise. I have all his notes. And Dave Clark's galley. Moe and Chip on the electrics. Although I do like Duane's idea of batteries in parallel. Maybe Tampa Mac would come for a ride with the gal in his avatar.

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I sure wish these guys weren't scamming me.

[Russell]

Well....kind of looks like the mac from the front a little........I'd choose the 20m. Now if everyone from this board can donate 100,000 each I would be off to a good start.

http://www.powersail.co.nz/overview.html

[Richard O'Brien]

I confess that I really , really, like my boat. I like the beige interior,& the fabric walls, which soften the look and noise. I'm a designer by trade, and these are good things. I didn't get the new '05 table, but mine is in the center, and I can attach a 3' ramp to it for my dog, so I'm happy. I like my boat because I can mess with it. If it was all teak, and polish, I'd be intimidated. I too wonder if Roger is missing an opportunity with add-ons. Certainly, Harley-Davidson capitalized on their name? Macgregor doesn't carry the same prestige, relative to yachts, so maybe that's the difference. I don't really care. I like my boat!!

[Moe]

Slamjammer, forum member deacm has a Mast 28, and a website reviewing it here.

--
Moe

[richandlori]

.....and loving your boat in the end is all that matters.........and when it comes to boating, use it or lose it!!! a used boat is a happy boat!


Rich