Was I ripped off?

[Zazoozaz]

Hello All:

I guess this is a kind of "Dear Abby" question to all my fellow Macgregor owners. I bought a 2001 Macgregor 26X in Jan 2004 for $22K. Her name is "An Foilean," ("The Seagull" anglicized from the Irish). Former and original owner said he paid $32K for her new from the dealer. Boat was pristine and only had about 50 hours on the 50hp Honda 4-stroke. Engine still in excellent shape in 2010 after acumulating 190 hours. Sails are still in excellent condition in 2010-- jib, mainsail, 150% genoa, and storm sail w/custom sunsail covers. Foresail roller furling, owner threw in handheld two 12-gallon gas tanks, motor oil and change kit, extra spark plugs,winterization kit, Garmin GPS, Star Pilot auto steering system, custom cockpit cushions, swim ladder, cooler w/extra insulation that fits the underseat locker down below perfectly, three batteries (1 starting and 2 marine) w/battery electrical monitoring system, two cabin roof 100-watt solar panels, depth finder, mounted Ritchie globe compass, heeling gauge, butane galley stove w/extra fuel, port-a-potty, quality padlocks, dutchman mainsail flaker system, sail covers, gallon of bottom paint, gel coat touchup kit, grease gun,lithium grease tubes, two danforth anchors w/new chains and rodes on each, new docklines, new bumpers, extra long VHF radio antenna, extra new prop (which I still haven't need to use), extra water tank.

The former spent a few hours teaching me how to maintain the engine, boat, and trailer. He also taught me proper trailering techniques. She's easy to launch, single-hand, and recover to trailer. Of course, she has all the other Macgregor attributes like water ballast, beachability, shallow draft, etc. that we Mac owners like. I she ideal? No, she sail like a pig, but all boats are a compromise of some kind. She's ideal for me.

My wife says I paid too much, but I believe it was a great deal at the time in Jan 2004, esp w/ the extras and what I learned from the very kind former owner. I've gotten hours of pleasure out of my boat and learned a lot. I replaced and up-graded the steering system, I keep her in my driveway in the off-season and on an inexpensive mooring in Raritan Bay NJ during sailing season. I've trailered her to Cape Cod, Lake Champlain, and Lake George. I do all maintenance myself, so maintenance cost is low.

My wife wants me to sell my boat, but the boat is one of my favorite pleasures and the source of a lot of learned skills: sailing, weather, navigation, mechanics, etc. BTW my wife hates to sail and prefers big power boats. I thought the Macgregor was a compromise, but my wife she never sails anymore, she's really frightened of heeling under sail.

What do you guys think? I need some moral support. The pressure is on. I like to sail. Some guys fish, some like kit cars or motorcycles. Am I an odd-ball?

Thanks for your input. --Ray

[Paul S]

sounds a bit pricey. Thats what we ran into when we were mac shopping..the X models were selling around what the new M was. So we bought a new 2004 M, with honda 50 motor/genny/roller furler/blue hull/ladder/delivery/etc for $26.4 in 2004

Macs seem to hold their value, so it was probably a fair deal if the boat was in good shape. But we couldn't pass up getting a new boat for what used boats were going for.

[Laika 26X]

I'm not sure what we could tell you as this IS a personal decision, and I believe you already know the answer.
All I can do is share experience.

I'm a BIG believer in you have to do what's right for yourself, due to the fact unless you're Shirley MacLaine (or subscribe to her beliefs) we most likely only have one shot at life. But THAT's me.......

See the following lesson:

The first time I took my wife out on a back in '02, I brought the Mac over to that 20-25 deg sweet spot, (you know the spot, where you feel the whole vessel lift like a racehorse and run) and the wife hasn't sailed aboard a MAC with me since.

In the interim to get her out I purchased a '78 Bristol 29.9, a stable "family vessel". A 29.9 is just shy of 3' longer, but is over 3' wide. So she was great for 20kt winds with only a 15 deg heel. Sold my first

She rarely went out on that.

An expensive lesson.

Finally sold the very pretty Bristol and I'm back on an '02 , I haven't looked back.

FWIW, LAIKA serves a great solo retreat now and that suits me fine!

Ed "Don't care what they think!" Tordahl
S/V LAIKA
USCG Auxiliary
Qualified Crew
Qualified Aids (Nav) Verifier
Qualified Public Education Instructor
NYS Qualified Safe Boating Instructor

[Russ]

in the off-season and on an inexpensive mooring in Raritan Bay NJ during sailing season.

Where is there an inexpensive mooring in Raritan Bay? I had a friend who kept his boat at the Raritan Yacht club. Not cheap. Another keeps his boat moored in Atlantic Highlands. Not cheap.

but the boat is one of my favorite pleasures and the source of a lot of learned skills: sailing, weather, navigation, mechanics, etc. BTW my wife hates to sail and prefers big power boats. I thought the Macgregor was a compromise, but my wife she never sails anymore, she's really frightened of heeling under sail.

Lots of stuff here.

You enjoy the boat. It's a favorite pleasure. Hang on to that thought.

Your wife prefers big power boats. Why?
I would ask a lot of questions:
Is it the comfort level? Big powerboats are MUCH more comfortable.
Is it the speed? Big powerboats don't really go that fast. The Mac probably wins here.
Does she like to swim off the powerboat swim platform? In Raritan Bay, I doubt it.
Does she not like the healing of sailing? The Mac is not best if this is the case. Maybe buy a heavier boat.
Does she like being on the water or does she tolerate it?
My mom tolerated sailing, whereas my dad lives it. She would put up with his passion but would rather sit in a nice air conditioned hotel room in Atlantic City. When forced to be ON the water, she would prefer the closest thing to that, a BIG power boat. Sailing wasn't her thing but she tolerated it for my dad's sake. Many women aren't into the healing, small spaces, small accommodations, porta potties etc. of trailer sailing.

If your wife isn't into BOATING, then you have a problem. Maybe you need to find a boat buddy and let her stay home. If she isn't into roughing it or the tenderness of the Mac, then maybe a bigger boat would help. I wouldn't force her into boating because it doesn't work. But let her know how much enjoyment, relaxation, pleasure you get out of boating. Then find something she likes to do and compromise your time with doing that.

As for the thread title. I don't think you got ripped off. I don't know what boat prices were for Macs in '04, but for a 3 year old boat with all the goodies listed, you did okay. In today's economy, maybe not.

--Russ

[rfrye94760]

Hey Ray:
I'm no expert but sounds like a fair amount of extras on your boat for the money. I'm sure you'll hear from the "experts" here that you paid too much but that's always the case with guys like that. They want to impress upon others that their superior intellect, vast knowledge and unparalleled negotiating skills allowed them to make the best deal in the history of deals. It's usually just the opposite, they actually question whether they got ripped off or not. Read enough posts here and you'll quickly spot them, post after post about any question asked trying to get the final and (in their mind) definitive answer as to whether or not you should be using a 13lb. or a 15lb. anchor. The only thing that matters is whether or not your happy with the deal.
As for the wife, tell her "you're a big girl, if you want a power boat buy a power boat." In the meantime, enjoy some quiet time on your boat.
Bob

[Catigale]

You got ripped off, and the 13 pound anchor is too small, imho

Seriously - you did well - you essentially bought the same boat I got the year before (new) paying 35k full up as a first time buyer.

My Admiral has gotten into dinghy sailing but still smiles whenever she sees me with this picture ...(at Cuttyhunk, Cape Cod)



Ive found that once she got comfortable with the dinghy, she was much more comfortable on the Mac..

[Terry]

Hello All:

Boat was pristine and only had about 50 hours on the 50hp Honda 4-stroke. Engine still in excellent shape in 2010 after acumulating 190 hours. Sails are still in excellent condition in 2010-- jib, mainsail, 150% genoa, and storm sail w/custom sunsail covers. Foresail roller furling, owner threw in handheld two 12-gallon gas tanks, motor oil and change kit, extra spark plugs,winterization kit, Garmin GPS, Star Pilot auto steering system, custom cockpit cushions, swim ladder, cooler w/extra insulation that fits the underseat locker down below perfectly, three batteries (1 starting and 2 marine) w/battery electrical monitoring system, two cabin roof 100-watt solar panels, depth finder, mounted Ritchie globe compass, heeling gauge, butane galley stove w/extra fuel, port-a-potty, quality padlocks, dutchman mainsail flaker system, sail covers, gallon of bottom paint, gel coat touchup kit, grease gun,lithium grease tubes, two danforth anchors w/new chains and rodes on each, new docklines, new bumpers, extra long VHF radio antenna, extra new prop (which I still haven't need to use), extra water tank.

The former spent a few hours teaching me how to maintain the engine, boat, and trailer. He also taught me proper trailering techniques.
She's ideal for me.

My wife says I paid too much, but I believe it was a great deal at the time in Jan 2004, esp w/ the extras and what I learned from the very kind former owner. I've gotten hours of pleasure out of my boat and learned a lot. I replaced and up-graded the steering system, I keep her in my driveway in the off-season and on an inexpensive mooring in Raritan Bay NJ during sailing season. I've trailered her to Cape Cod, Lake Champlain, and Lake George. I do all maintenance myself, so maintenance cost is low.

My wife wants me to sell my boat, but the boat is one of my favorite pleasures and the source of a lot of learned skills: sailing, weather, navigation, mechanics, etc. BTW my wife hates to sail and prefers big power boats. I thought the Macgregor was a compromise, but my wife she never sails anymore, she's really frightened of heeling under sail.

What do you guys think? I need some moral support. The pressure is on. I like to sail. Some guys fish, some like kit cars or motorcycles. Am I an odd-ball?

Thanks for your input. --Ray

OK, hereis my humble opinion.
For what you paid and considering the condition of the boat and all the extras you got a pretty good deal! You did not pay too much and if you bought new and had to buy all those extras it would have been a heck of a lot more, trust me, I bought new and had to buy all the extras and have almost spent half what I originally paid. You could likely sell today and get back most what you paid for it but then you would not have your toy. I think you got a very fair deal on it.

[bscott]

I think you got a great deal.

My wife decided that sailing a "race boat" was not working for her so we sold the Capri 25 and bought a used and spent too many boat bucks up grading the sails and a new E-tec 60. Turns out she was right. When we sail together, I reef the main from the get go and sometimes go "jib only" as 20+ heeling is no longer an option when we sail together.

I look forward to a "guys" day sail but am OK with going down to the boat and hanging out--messing with the rigging or just sailing solo for a few hrs. My lake marina has 6 Macs so lots of social opportunities to be had.

My 10 yr. grand daughter wants to learn to sail, the 14 year old wants to fish and the 8 yr. old wants to go fast, my wife wants to be a grandmother and I want to be on the doing it all. I know all those compromises suit the Mac to a tee!

Maybe you can compromise your sailing technique to limit the heeling--maybe even motor sail a tack if need be. A set of Smart Rails and a Bimini can make the mac a more pleasant motor boat experience. I would not give up the

Bob

[mackatt68]

I'd say you got a great deal on the boat, on the wife, not so much.
All kidding aside I feel your pain. My wife panics whenever she feels Mack's Mac start to heel in the least. I threaten to my an inclinometer to show that we're no as heeled as she thinks, but I'm guessing it would be a waste of money. I think it's that she senses a lack of control, since she has no problem with a 180 degree high speed turn in our powerboat. So after over ten years of sailing on our X, I'm pretty much resigned to light air sailing, off the wind and firing up the iron jenny whenever we need to go upwind.
Best of luck

[Catigale]

I learned to give the Admiral the main sheet, uncleated, and spill off whenever she wanted..


Now she hikes out on the Harpoon

[Québec 1]

1. Find a marina your wife likes a lot and invite your wife to spend weekends on the boat as if it was a cottage..don't go sailing.

2. When ever she spends a weekend on the boat have incredible intimate moments unlike you have on land, in other words do something different.

3. Go out solo when there is a big blow as often as possible so you have trouble docking your boat every time you come in and only go out sailing with your admiral when their is little wind and return docking is a breeze and always reef the main when she's on board.

4.Don't forget to tell her you love her every time she is on the boat and refrain from telling her you love her when your on the hard ...except at Xmas ..if your in the Caribbeans on your Mac...because the mac is a trailer sailor ...first and foremost.

5. If your own a Mac and think you got ripped off or your wife does not t like it and you would rather keep your wife than the Mac....sell it...you won't loose much money....If you prefer the Mac to your wife ...you will end up loosing everything.
..Me I've got a dog!
Q1

[Don T]

Québec 1,
Sage advise my friend, you have been around eh?

Don

[MSN-Travelers]

The price you paid back then is nothing compared to the price you are paying now. (BTW, you didn't over-pay for the used X)

It took me years to let my wife convice me that we should dump the stink pot gas guzzler and get a sailboat. The Mac had everything we wanted except the stability "she wanted" when the winds kicked up on Lake Michigan. We sailed whenever we could but she had to have the mainsheet in-hand to spill air when the heel became too excessive (20 degrees, in her opinion). I loved going out single handed but then it was "my boat" vs our boat.

In the end, she convinced me we needed a bigger boat. Now we have a 35 foot, 12.5 foot wide, Beneteau and the Admiral is a very happy camper! A hull of a lot more work for me but ... as they say ... If mama ain't happy, nobody is gonna be happy!

I wish ya luck brother!

[iredrider1177]

i paid 16k for a used 2006 all stock, no motor last year, i have almost 30k in Sol Dervin now, a coworker told me the other day what boat stands for B.reak O.ut A.nother T.housand, aint that the truth!! but were happy now, we have a good vessel and its easy on gas!!. i know because i have a dual rotax jet boat and 2 jet skis, we go through $300 a weekend in fuel on those easily. i believe i sorta tricked my girlfriend into liking the healing of the boat by letting her teach me how to do it since we both learned at the same time, u know what i mean.............so i dont think you got a bad deal for all the stuff you got with it, as for the wifey, .....well.... Break out another thousand for something shiny

[pokerrick1]

First of all I think price, within a reasonable amount (like $2K-5K) doesn't make any diffreence - - - far more important is USING the boat to all possible advantages (including the romantic ones talked about above as well as the solo sailing or with a male friend). I have never let a slightly higher price stand in the way of something I desired (including wives), and, anyway, sounds like your price was at least OK and it was 6 years ago - - - she has to get OVER IT! You cannot tell her "she's a big girl; buy your own powerboat (she might do it) - - - but you can (as also suggested above) start doing some better salesmanship with her about the Mac. I like the idea of weekend on the boat and go a few places and do a few things without sailing.

BOTTOM LINE for me is; keep the Mac, continues to enjoy it AS MUCH AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN, try to do a better sales job on wifey - - - and if that fails dump the wife

Rick

PS I've been married seven times to seven different women so DO NOT listen to me