Non-rotating mast issues

[Mac26Mpaul]

Hi all
Firstly, hello to all and thankyou. I'v owned a Mac for about 4 months, have learnt a lot from this site, had trouble joining but finally realized thats because the site doesnt like gmail addresses.

Now my problem. I have found a few posts on this topic now, but nothing that has helped much.

My mast was real tight, very hard to move and certainly didnt rotate freely when sailing. I found that the nut was not done up tight enough and so the mast was binding up a bit on the stainless plate it sits on. I greased up the three washers and did the bolt up a bit tighter. This helped a bit. The mast moves easily on the plate when the mast is not up. However it is not good enough to actually work when sailing.

Next I realized that the previous owner really had it set up crapily. The mast was bent a bit over to port at the top. I let this out a notch on the aduster and now with the mast straight, it is a lot better! Pretty easy to move with your hands and will probably work well in a stronger breeze, but in a light breeze which it seems to me is when the rotating mast will be of most use, it still isnt going to work

Now I'm fairly confident if I loosen off both of the top shrouds a bit, the mast will rotate easily as I imagine its suppossed to, however if I do this, the forestay/furler will certainly be slacker than what I thnk it should be!( In fact it already seems too slack to me - certainly more so than my last boat ).

So does anyone have any tips to get this set up properly or is the rotating mast really a waste of time - if so, what is the best method to secure it in the centre?

Cheers,
Paul

[beene]

Hello Paul and welcome

I just give my mainsheet a tug after tacking.
Ok so here we go...
Set up on a beat
Mast rotated correctly
All good
Tack across the wind
Once set up and on your way again on the new tack, pull back on the mainsheet between the boom and the traveler.
If you have any wind at all, the mast will straighten, and then be pushed by main over to leeward.
Done

Works for me every time

G

[NiceAft]

Paul,

Your rotating mast not performing well is not an unusual problem. There have been many solutions suggested on this forum, the one that seems to work the best (based on comments posted) is a bearing for the mast base. It is sold by Blue Water Yachts http://www.bwyachts.com

My own solutin was to say "I don't care anymore". No matter what we do, we are not the fastest sailboatboat on the water. at leat without the motor running I don't race, so I really don't care if the mast decides when it will be cooperative. It used to bother me, but not anymore. No one yet has come up to me on the water and yelled "Hey pal Your mast is kind of weird "

Go sailing. Enjoy life.

Ray

[Terry]

Paul,

Your rotating mast not performing well is not an unusual problem. There have been many solutions suggested on this forum, the one that seems to work the best (based on comments posted) is a bearing for the mast base. It is sold by Blue Water Yachts http://www.bwyachts.com
Ray

Yes the bearing is somewhat of a partial solution, ((I have it) but if you want to get anal about it as I did, you can add a set of small pully blocks and lines between the boom vang attachment at the mast base and the baby stays attachment at the stantion bases. Then run those lines back to a cleat or other attachment at the cockpit just a few inches outside the winches where you can tug them. It is usually in light air that the mast sticks a bit. This setup works for me and is relatively cheap & easy to install. I would not loosen any shrouds or stays as a solution as that will only have a negative impact on your rig tuning. You want the standing rigging tight.

[Paul S]

also make sure the forestasy/roller is tensioned right.

If the shrouds are all tensioned right, it should rotate fine. If not, it will bind.

The roller bearing is, IMO, a fix for the symptom, not the underlying problem (bad setup)

Our 04 mast rotates very smoothly. I just squirt a bit of sailkote on the flat bearings each spring. Smooth as silk.

If the mast will rotate by hand, and just doesn't rotate when under sail in light wind conditions, then a sharp pull of the mainsheet, aft, will make it rotate ( I mean literally grab the line of the mainsheet and yank aft)

There should be measurements in the manual on the length of the upper shrouds from the spreaders to the mast, ensure it is good, the spreaders not bent, mast not bent, shrouds in good condition and tensioned evenly.

The mast rotating does make a good deal of difference maybe .5-1 kt.These boats can use all the help we can get!!

I do not know what the actual tension should be, it is not posted on Macs website or the manual. I have mine just tight enough that the leward shrouds dont sag under sail. Plus tensioning it properly (ie on the water) is difficult with the factory adjusters. I do my best on the trailer to ensure they are as equal as I can get and the mast is straight.

Unless something is bent/broken, the problem is that it is not set up right. The manual is light on details, but the information is there to get you 99% there. I suspect that the shrouds were overly tight and the forestay/roller was too loose causing the mast not to stand straight pinching the flat bearings on one side (ie leaning too far aft). I would loosen the shrouds and tighten the forstay. Just a SWAG, but thats what it sounds like.

My rig is tighter this year than ever before, and the mast still rotates flawlessly.

[Mac26Mpaul]

Thanks all for input. Paul I tend to think you're right and the real solution is in setup - shroud and stay tension. Another member told me that his mast swings freely back and forth as the boat rocks at anchor and he just has the standard washers. Perhaps this is the mark of one of these boats being setup right! Oh well, I better get out there and start playing...

[Catigale]

that his mast swings freely back and forth as the boat rocks at anchor

Rotating back and forth is ok, but if there is either side-to-side or front-back motion this needs to be fixed. Mac rigging will fail under 'shock loading' of this type.

[Russ]

Installing the bearings did the trick for me. Works like a champ now.


--Russ

[Terry]

also make sure the forestasy/roller is tensioned right.

If the shrouds are all tensioned right, it should rotate fine. If not, it will bind.

I do not know what the actual tension should be, it is not posted on Macs website or the manual. I have mine just tight enough that the leward shrouds dont sag under sail. Plus tensioning it properly (ie on the water) is difficult with the factory adjusters. I do my best on the trailer to ensure they are as equal as I can get and the mast is straight.

Unless something is bent/broken, the problem is that it is not set up right. The manual is light on details, but the information is there to get you 99% there. I suspect that the shrouds were overly tight and the forestay/roller was too loose causing the mast not to stand straight pinching the flat bearings on one side (ie leaning too far aft). I would loosen the shrouds and tighten the forstay. Just a SWAG, but thats what it sounds like.

My rig is tighter this year than ever before, and the mast still rotates flawlessly.

I used a Loos Guage to tension mine to 10-15% as marked on the guage. I also did the full tuning process on the hard because as Paul pointed ou it is difficult on the water and the water line changes every time you move your body weight around, so i did the mast rake setting and shroud tightening on the trailer with the boot stripe parallel to the ground using a 4' level, also did the beam this way. Proper setup and tuning is 90% of the battle won.
Has anyone ever checked the wear pattern on these BWY bearings?? I am on my third or fourth one and have a spare for next time. They are a wear out item and they do take a lot of stress, they crack and split over time and must be changed. It would be prudent to check it seasonally. I get about 2 seasons from one but I save the worn ones to show others how they wear and sometimes only one side is cracking so I can re-use the other one later with another worn but usable one. My first original worn bearing looked really bad when I went to check it, pretty much unusable, I had no idea they could wear so severely, be sure and visually inspect them every seaason as it just may need replacing this time.

[Highlander]

I too bought that swivel bearing & their is no way it was designed for that type of use ! , I ended up using mine for my mastop swivel brkt for my backstay their it is not subjected to the weight of the mast & sails or stress of the shrouds .

Some one else just posted that the bearing worked a charm and sounded like it was now much bigger "thicker" than what was originally being used but I have not seem any pic's of it yet !

J

[Mac26Mpaul]

Okay,, what I have learnt in 5 hours in the backyard!

The Mac is not fun to try and set up with those stay adjusters and furler. I must have climbed up and down off the boat dozens of times adjusting each stay adjuster a little at a time, and trying to adjust the bottle screw in the furler... After 4 hours I was about back to square one Things then went a little better and after 5 hours, I'd say I have it the best it can be.

The only way I could see that it could swing freely is if shrouds/stay are too loose!

If there is the slightest sideways bend in the mast, it will bind in that direction. I found that pulling the halyard down tight in line with the sail track makes it possible to see even the slightest bend, which is overwise unnoticable

I now have the mast set with measurments as per the manual. I dont have any way to measure tension, but shrounds feel about as they should to me.

It is a LOT better than it was before and in the decent breeze blowing in the backyard right now, I had the sail up and it was working fine. It is still not going to work in real light air, but I guess I may have been expecting too much there.

It seems many believe the bearing does work, so I guess I will try and scout a supplier of them out here in Oz.

The boat was 2 years old when I bought it and it was setup quite badly with an easily noticable sideways bend in the mast which was causing the mast to bind right up in that direction. The previous owner must have had a bad time trying to sail this boat, probably ended up one of the few Ex Mac owners that turn into Mac bashers I guess

[NiceAft]

So Paul, do you still think trying to get the mast to swivel is worth it If yes, then time well spent If no, then, as they say in Brooklyn, FAWGETABOUTIT Life is too short. Go sailing

If you get beat by another sailboat, just tell them your mast is warped.


Ray

[Mac26Mpaul]

Ray,
I'm no perfectionist and I couldnt care less about lots of the other trailer yachts being point two of a knot faster than me (or whatever the mac bashers go on with - If you want to go fast, buy a motorbike I always say...) but the mast hard around one way and the sail hard the other, a) looks silly/annoying b) will I'm sure rob quite a bit of speed and perhaps most importantly c) is kind of embarassing if you have guests onboard and you have to manually reef the mast over after every tack, so I do think its worth it to try and get the thing functioning properly.

Now I believe I have it pretty dam good so I'm not too fussed, but will certainly look into the bearing thing at some stage - only takes a few minutes to install afterall.

Still, if all else fails, like you say, Just "go sailing"!

Paul

[NiceAft]

kind of embarassing if you have guests onboard and you have to manually reef the mast over after every tack

If you have a guest onboard, and they have the chutzpah to find fault with your mast (nothing personal here guy ), tell them they are too anal for your boat, and make them walk the plank


Ray

[Paul S]

Okay,, what I have learnt in 5 hours in the backyard!

The Mac is not fun to try and set up with those stay adjusters and furler. I must have climbed up and down off the boat dozens of times adjusting each stay adjuster a little at a time, and trying to adjust the bottle screw in the furler... After 4 hours I was about back to square one Things then went a little better and after 5 hours, I'd say I have it the best it can be.

The only way I could see that it could swing freely is if shrouds/stay are too loose!

If there is the slightest sideways bend in the mast, it will bind in that direction. I found that pulling the halyard down tight in line with the sail track makes it possible to see even the slightest bend, which is overwise unnoticable

I now have the mast set with measurments as per the manual. I dont have any way to measure tension, but shrounds feel about as they should to me.

It is a LOT better than it was before and in the decent breeze blowing in the backyard right now, I had the sail up and it was working fine. It is still not going to work in real light air, but I guess I may have been expecting too much there.

It seems many believe the bearing does work, so I guess I will try and scout a supplier of them out here in Oz.

The boat was 2 years old when I bought it and it was setup quite badly with an easily noticable sideways bend in the mast which was causing the mast to bind right up in that direction. The previous owner must have had a bad time trying to sail this boat, probably ended up one of the few Ex Mac owners that turn into Mac bashers I guess

Its not only about the shrouds, it has to be balanced with the forestay. It is not going to glide when it rotates, but it should rotate without binding. If the shrouds are tight and it binds, sounds like the forestay is too loose (ie mast is leaning too far aft), pinching the mast base. I found, after several years, the forestay/roller on our boat was too loose. a few turns of the turnbuckle inside the roller, not only made the roller sag less, but made the rotation smoother. The only other thing I do is give a squirt or 2 of sailkote to the flat bearings and it is good to go.

I also pin my mast sometimes (trailering it, and going downwind). I just drilled a hole and insert a SS pin.

Your mast is not bent I take it. Just an assumption.

The mast will not rotate in light air. At least mine doesn't. But a sharp pull of the mainsheet toward aft, will help encourage it to rotate.